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 Let's make a special character

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What type of character should our hero be?
Archon
48%
 48% [ 12 ]
Succubus
4%
 4% [ 1 ]
Haemonculus
20%
 20% [ 5 ]
Other
28%
 28% [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 25
 

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Let's make a special character   Fri Jul 31 2015, 09:30

The Dark Eldar and Salamanders Space Marines chapter have a history of enmity, with the Salamanders home world having been a victim of raids since back when Vulcan was still around. It's undoubtedly a factor in why they love flame weapons so much, as flamers are very effective against us.

So I was thinking: Why not have a Kabal, Cult or Coven who specialize in hitting worlds under the protection of the Salamanders? Pissing off a space marine chapter for your own amusement and taunting them with their impotence against you sounds very Dark Eldar to me.

So, why not make a special character based on the concept?

First off, should our character be an Archon, a Succubus, a Haemonculus, or something else entirely?

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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Fri Jul 31 2015, 10:03

That's a nice idea. But do you have any other info how to narrow down the possibilities?

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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Fri Jul 31 2015, 10:12

Well, I was figuring that we'd be looking at a character with either FnP or Invulnerable against flamer and melta weapons, possibly even spreading the love to any squad he joins. Also Preferred Enemy (Salamanders), again spreading to whatever squad they're with.

If they're an Archon I'd imagine they enjoy the challenge of matching wits with the Emperor's finest, along with enjoying their rage as the Kabal preys on the weak and helpless under the Salamanders' protection (Made all the better by the Salamanders being rather protective of civilians).

As a Succubus, I'm kinda seeing a more "raid the civilians to get their attention, then ambush them when they show up to get good arena slaves" vibe, with the civilians being bait for the main prize.

For a Haemy.... I can totally see adding a mutagen to the water supply so that the civilian population mutate, begin rampaging, then the Salamanders have to put them down while the Coven drinks their angst.

Beyond that, any of the above is good. What would people like in a special character?

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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Fri Jul 31 2015, 12:56

Personal opinion here but I've never been a fan of special characters. They're usually over-priced and not worth taking in lieu of another unit or two in their place. Only time I've ever considered it is when they're abilities give me something I need to make my army work (usually the result of deficient list options to begin with). That all said I do like to see special characters and know that should I need their particular talents they're available to me.

I like the idea of focussing your concept around the raiding of the Salamander's homeworld. I wasn't aware of that part of their history. The Salamander's are one of my favourite marine chapters (I've still got the models that were to form the core of a Salamander successor chapter I once intended to field) and I love that they're tied to the DE like this. I would go with two characters myself, an Archon and a Haemonculus.

The Archon should be providing Preferred Enemy Salamander's to the entire army and give some kind of bonus to deployment/first turn stealing. You'd have to imagine that the Salamanders, caring a lot about their populations, being techno-savvy and being the target of multiple and repeated raids would have decent early warning systems in place. But the DE aren't idiots, they wouldn't be raiding strongly defended worlds if they didn't know a backdoor that could get them in and out whilst circumventing the the alarms. He could have a rule such as Webway Infiltration - 3 units, including vehicles can be infiltrated at the end of deployment. This guy knows some secret webway nodes that exist all over Nocturne allowing him and his raiding force to avoid tripping the alarms until the DE are upon their enemy. Because the Salamanders are sporting flamers everywhere getting up close to them is suicide for the DE so they'd be mostly fighting at range with guns. I'd equip this guy with a Blaster, Shadowfield and Webway Portal by default. His special arcane gear can be Armour of the Void - same stats as Ghostplate Armour (4+ 6++) that grants a +1 to FNP rolls vs flame weapons. This gives him some solid protection vs basic flamers and flame in general. Going up against all that flame he'd wanna be as protected as possible.

The Haemonculus comes with Preferred Enemy Salamanders that he transfers to his unit and those units within a 12" bubble of him. He gives himself, his unit and those within 12" of him a +1 to FNP vs flame weapons that is cumulative with other bonuses to FNP (so if a Chronos is nearby you can get 3+ vs flame weapons). He comes stock with an Ossefactor, Scissorhand, Clone Field and Webway Portal. You'd want to take him from the Coven book and give him some Grots or Wracks to deliver into combat. Flame resistant Grots are probably one of the better ways to mitigate all that flame damage the Salamanders can spew out.

You'd essentially want to infiltrate whatever you can into strong positions and then DS the rest on top of the Salamanders, using shooting to take them out and toughened Grotesques to cause some havoc. Might not be worth taking against anything but Salamanders though as you're paying for all that Preferred Enemy.

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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Fri Jul 31 2015, 14:59

I'm putting in for a Haemonculus. make it a Coven.

I'm basing this on spoilers from VULKAN LIVES. There is a particular thing discovered about Vulcan in that book (Horus Heresy series) which I can imagine would make a special haemonculus extremely interested in the Vulkan/Salamanders gene-seed.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Fri Jul 31 2015, 17:44

Squidmaster wrote:
I'm putting in for a Haemonculus. make it a Coven.

I'm basing this on spoilers from VULKAN LIVES. There is a particular thing discovered about Vulcan in that book (Horus Heresy series) which I can imagine would make a special haemonculus extremely interested in the Vulkan/Salamanders gene-seed.

Care to make a spoiler explanation? for those who will never read those books? Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Fri Jul 31 2015, 18:00

Spoiler:

(Highlight to see it

.
Basically, in the Horus Heresy series, there are these guys called Perpetuals. They are strange, thus far unexplained immortals within the human race. The one who'se turned up most often is a chap named John Grammaticus. ANd on some of the occasions he has turned up, its been made clear that he CANNOT die. He may be killed, but will still heal and come back.
The insinutation in Vulkan Lives is that Vulkan, as well as being a Primarch, is also a Perpetual (the idea I think being that the Emperor is also one, but happens to be extremely powerful too, and made Vulkan as one).

.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Sat Aug 01 2015, 00:58

Well, that does make sense for a Haemonculus to be interested in. One wonders why it's the Blood Angels who have the unusually long life spans for space marines.

Oh. Imagine if that attribute could be given to run of the mill slaves. *wince*

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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Sat Aug 01 2015, 02:01

Yeah a Haemonculus would be interested for sure.

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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Sat Aug 01 2015, 05:11

Blood angels with a long life span? Technically, all Space Marines are immortal. At least of age as far as I know.

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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Sat Aug 01 2015, 05:40

Dante is the oldest non-dreadnought, having been chapter-master for at least 1,100 years, and is generally considered to be something of an anomaly.

I don't believe that marines are actually unaging, but all things considered it's kinda difficult to prove that. They have enhanced lifespans certainly, but since they all insist on dying in battle it's impossible to know what the upper limit is. Still, they do show signs of aging (some chapters like the puppies more so than others).

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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Sat Aug 01 2015, 12:05

That Haemonculus tie-in does sound perfect.

I still vote for creating an Archon named character since we already have a wych (Lelith) and a haemonculus (Urien). Heck, we even have a technically-incubus in Drazhar. Perhaps the Archon has close ties to a coven whose patron is interested in the above mentioned spoiler but is not much of a "go out and get it yourself" type.

Maybe with the Archon's ties we can rule that he unlocks Wracks as troops choices.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Sat Aug 01 2015, 12:37

Maybe he\she should be a hybrid?
I mean an Archon who was hecatrix or succubus in past?

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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Mon Aug 03 2015, 09:36

Devilogical wrote:
Maybe he\she should be a hybrid?
I mean an Archon who was hecatrix or succubus in past?

This would merely be background info for the character. It wouldn't functionally affect them being an Archon. There's already a strong background focus for the character with the backstory being tied to the Salamanders. Better to save the Wych risen to Archon background for another character. When creating a background for characters (this applies to any art medium) too much is often times a bad thing.

Thinking about it further an Archon is the best choice, spurred on by some greedy Haemonculai.

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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Mon Aug 03 2015, 10:09

Let's look at what we've got so far:

1) We want a named Archon character.

2) He/she has connection to the Covens.

Mechanically, we've had a few suggestions:

1) He/she should grant the army "Preferred Enemy: Salamanders".

2) He/she should grant a bonus to FNP against flamers and melta weapons (Presumably due to his Kabal having been modified by his Coven allies to withstand extreme heat better)

3) He/she should have some representation of the Coven connection, with making Wracks troops a good option.

Here are some other ideas that might fit the theme (obviously not all should be used):

Able to take Grotesques as retinue instead of a Court of the Archon?

Bonus victory points for defeating Salamander Characters in cc?

A dodge save against Unwieldly weapons (EG thunderhammers that the salamanders are so fond of)?

Unique equipment designed for disabling space marines (after all, they're better for experiments if you take them alive. I'm thinking a Venom Blade with AP 3 or a special Agonizer [poison to tranquilize them for transport])

In any case, why don't we work out some specifics of this character's history and let that decide our wargear/special rules.

(Also, I vote for a Female Archon because there aren't enough female special characters in 40K)


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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Mon Aug 03 2015, 10:13

FuelDrop wrote:
Dante is the oldest non-dreadnought, having been chapter-master for at least 1,100 years, and is generally considered to be something of an anomaly.

I don't believe that marines are actually unaging, but all things considered it's kinda difficult to prove that. They have enhanced lifespans certainly, but since they all insist on dying in battle it's impossible to know what the upper limit is. Still, they do show signs of aging (some chapters like the puppies more so than others).

The HH novels do state that Space Marines are functionally immortal but there's also some contradictory information in the same series so take with a pinch of salt. It's also possible/likely that their immortality has been diluted over the years due to geneseed degradation.

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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Mon Aug 03 2015, 16:41

Nice idea!
If we want him\her to have some representatives with Covens, maybe She\he should take a haemi as Court?
I mean take Archon and Haemi as one HQ slot

Oh, and i vote for femme fatale ofcourse Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Mon Aug 03 2015, 17:47

And what about her characteristics to be more like Duke Sliscus was (lesser, than other Archons) but she will have some strategic advances?

Reserve rolls or some PfP mechanic? Maybe sligtly different PfP table of Drugs?

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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Mon Aug 03 2015, 17:59

Maybe they extract a drug out of some of the Dragon thingy or even the salamanders themselves?

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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Mon Aug 03 2015, 19:30

I don't like the bonus VP's vs Salamanders, she's already getting an advantage over that enemy. Would make taking this character just cheese against Salamander players. Not a fan of the dodge either, leave that to witches

I'd go with

1) Grants "Preferred Enemy: Salamanders" to the entire Detachment.

2) Grants all units in the Detachment with access to PfP a +1 bonus to FnP rolls vs flame template weapons and Soulblaze effects. All MC's with the FnP rule receive a +1 save bonus vs flame templates, Soulblaze effects and melta weaponry. This bonus is added last after all other modifiers (so Chronos can stilll get it to 4+/3+ vs flame). (With the new Chapter Tactics Salamanders are gonna be heavy on flamers but not necessarily melta. Makes no sense for the troops to be protected from melta but it seems fitting for the Pain Engines to be buffed).

3.) Covenite Collectors: Character can take a special retinue unit that doesn't take up a force org slot. This Covenite Collectors unit can consist of 0-12 models taken in any quantity from amongst the following: Grotesques (counts as 2 models), Wracks, Haemonculus Neophyte. This unit may draw it's PfP from the Coven book instead of the codex, however all models must use the same table. The Archon still takes his PfP from the codex table. Maybe they can upgrade any model to an Aberration/Acothyst?

4.) Friends in Low Places: If this character is your warlord you may take stand-alone Formations from the Covern boko without penalty. The units in these Formations receive the benefit of this character's special rules as if they were a part of her Detachment. (I don't think this character should allow the taking of Wracks as troops because without access to the Coven PfP table they're handicapped. Also if you wanted Wrack troops then you could just make a the character a Haemonculus instead? I'd think an Archon would be using her own troops. coven units should be there to support her not to be the main element in her army).

Haemonculus Neophyte:

These models should take the place of the old non Ancient Haemonculus. They're Haemies at the start of their careers. Stats ae the same as a Wrack Acothyst but with the basic Haemonculus equipment (pistol, 2 CC weapons). Can take the same weapon upgrades as a Haemie/Acothyst.


This to me seems reasonable. She's not a strong character, certainly not OP. Has one specialised army-wide ability, has 1 general purpose army wide ability, can buff coven formations to make them even better and can take a unique unit and model type making her stand out from other characters.

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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Mon Aug 03 2015, 19:45

I dislike the Covens Court idea. May as well just take a Covens formation and add the Archon.

Wracks as troops can be solved by giving access to the Covens PfP table. It'll also solve the issue of having a largely crappy codex PfP table.

Additional defense against flame templates is nuts (in a good way) considering how templates tend to remove all of our normal saves.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Wed Aug 05 2015, 10:15

Can I offer an option? Fluff wise?

There seems to be talk of an Archon who hates Salamanders, and has a connection to Haemonculi Covens.

Remember when the Salamanders burst into Commoragh, eventually leading to the rise of Vect?
Well according to the lore, they did so above the territory of Archin Xelian. It completely crippled her, and allowed of the ascension of Asdrubael Vect.
She became a character in the Path of the Dark Eldar trilogy, and eventually fell to, well, spoilers.
But the point is, we could easily take the story from there if we wanted to.
Its very possible that the two Xelian's may be different characters, but theres no real reason we can;t take them as the same. Xelain suffered at the hands of the Salamanders, and at Vect.
And perhaps after the conclusion of the novels, her power completely taken from her, she might have found a new ally amongst the Covens. Maybe her broken bod could be rebuilt.
We could maybe take the character of Xelian as the fallen or outcast Archon, of comparible power, with access to lovely toys, with a hatred for Salamanders because of their role in her fall and a reason to hang with Haemonculi.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Wed Aug 05 2015, 19:24

Ooh, excellent fluff. I like Hatred (Salamanders) on the character better than PE.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Tue Aug 11 2015, 10:06

How does this look:

Archon Xelian:

WS 7 BS 7 S 3 T 3 W 3 I 7 A 4 LD 10 SV 4+

Wargear:

Ghostplate.

Vulkan's Lament (Pistol):
Range Template Strength 1 AP - Pistol Poisoned 4+ Pinning

Forgefather's Folly (Sword):
Range - Strength User AP 3 Poisoned 4+ Master Crafted Paralyze*
*Paralyze: Models who suffer an unsaved wound by a weapon with this property reduce their Weapon Skill, Initiative, and Attacks characteristics by 1 (to a minimum of 1) for the remainder of the assault phase. If the model takes multiple such wounds, this effect stacks with itself.

Plasma Grenades
Haywire Grenades
Shadowshield.

May take a Webway Portal (35 points)

Special rules:
Fleet
Power from Pain
Night Vision
Independent Character
Hatred (Salamanders)
Feel No Pain

Geneseed Toxins: Against models with the Chapter Tactics (Salamanders) special rule, all of Archon Xelina's poisoned attacks wound on 2+ instead of 4+.

Bloody History: Archon Xelina has a history with the Salamanders chapter of space marines and their successors stretching back to when Primarch Vulcan was a blacksmith's apprentice. Characters with the Chapter Tactics (Salamanders) special rule MUST accept any challenge she offers, and MUST offer a challenge if in the same combat as her. If multiple characters with this special rule are in the same combat as her then the controlling player may choose who accepts or issues the challenge. In a challenge, such characters gain the Hatred (Archon Xelina) special rule.

Fireproof: Archon Xelina and any Dark Eldar in the same detachment as her gain +1 on feel no pain rolls against Flamer and Melta weapons. If a weapon would ignore FNP normally (due to special rules or instant death), it ignores this rule as well. If Archon Xelina is your army's warlord, all Dark Eldar in the army benefit from this rule.

Warlord Trait: Labyrinthine Cunning.


What does everyone think?

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PostSubject: Re: Let's make a special character   Tue Aug 11 2015, 19:23

I love the geneseed toxin. Not sure if all DE or just Xelina and covens units should get the FNP bonus
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