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 Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Wed Jul 29 2015, 12:39

Archons are among the richest and most influential beings in the galaxy. They are functionally immortal, have a host of minions and fleet of vehicles at their beck and call, and when it comes time to raid the lesser races of the galaxy they have access to some of the deadliest personal weapons in existence.

Among these weapons, one stands out as being so rare and powerful that only someone with the resources of an Archon could hope to field one: The Husk Blade.

Now with all that in mind, how deadly is this incredibly rare and valuable weapon? About as good against armour as a garden-variety power-sword, and about as good for actually hurting anything. Most modern Archons prefer an Agonizer for its reliability against the more durable creatures that dominate our battlefields.

This makes me sad, as this should be one hell of a weapon. It should be able to kill anything by so much as nicking the skin. It should be a weapon WORTHY of an Archon.

As such, here is my proposed new profile for my homebrew codex (btw the points cost will be going up to compensate):

Husk Blade. Range -. Strength user. AP 3. Special rules: Instant Death, Fleshbane, Deathtouch*
*Deathtouch. If a 6 is rolled when rolling to wound with a Huskblade, the weapon has pierced far enough to scratch the wearer of even the heaviest armour. The wound is resolved as AP 2.

Overkill? Maybe, but it's not that far off the profile for the Shard of Anaris. Certainly a worthy weapon for an Archon willing to spend the extra points, methinks.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Wed Jul 29 2015, 14:05

Isn't Deathtouch essentially Rending without the autowound (which is already conferred by Fleshbane)? And the Shard only has Fleshbane and ID in a challenge. What sort of points value are you thinking for this?

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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Wed Jul 29 2015, 16:00

Here's my 2 cents, which I have used and play tested and find fair: Huskblade: range -, strength plus 1, AP 3, rending, instant death: 35pts
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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Wed Jul 29 2015, 17:57

My preferred stats would be +1 S. Ap2. Instant death. The AP2 allows the Archon to go with Incubi and match them. Pts 25 to give the Archon a real threat
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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Wed Jul 29 2015, 18:03

Daveyo, I think that may be over powered. For that stat line it would need to cost 45 pts or so. AP 2 instant death, even at strength 3 is really really good
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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Wed Jul 29 2015, 20:54

Perhaps instant death on a 6. I do like the AP2
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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Wed Jul 29 2015, 21:54

I think the Huskblade should be ap3 instant death, but add to the users strength a bit. The agoniser howvere should be ap2 poison. These changes alone would make me want to take my archon again. Also, drugs would be nice. How I miss my archon
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Wed Jul 29 2015, 22:06

To be honest, I think if we really want to do the fluff justice, the Husk Blade would have the same effect against living targets as a destroyer weapon. Afer all, it simply evaporates everything it merely touches into nothing more than dust.

Anyway, considering that our Archons have ridiculous stats I personally don't see why the Husk Blade should not have Instant Death AP2. It's not like ID on a S3 weapon is going to rock the whole table.

Personally, I think redesigning the Husk Blade should go hand in hand with redesigning the Archon as well.

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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Wed Jul 29 2015, 22:51

I know the Huskblade took a solid whack from the nerfbat, but I personally don't think its that awful. If I only get a limited number of wishes for changes in a new dex, this wouldn't even break the top ten.
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Thu Jul 30 2015, 00:19

@Count Adhemar: Deathtouch is rending without extra vehicle damage. I'm thinking 55-60 points, making it a considerable investment but one which will pay for it self very quickly in the right circumstances.

Wounding on 2's instant death at AP 2 isn't actually that uncommon in duels. Thunder Hammers and Power Fists exist, after all. The difference here is that the Husk Blade strikes at a very high initiative, meaning that the enemy must weather the assault first before killing the Archon... which if they were wielding an unwieldly weapon, they'd have to do anyway.

The real power of this design of husk blade is that it cuts down monsterous creatures and GMCs very very quickly. Since this is a hit and miss design (a lot of armies don't even have MCs and very few have GMCs, it deserves high but not strataspheric points costs associated. Dark Eldar are glass cannons, and most HQs get an option that wounds on 2, ignores armour and ID's us so it's not like we're the only ones who could do this.



I don't want the Husk Blade to give a + to strength since that potentially allows the wielder to just melee vehicles to death with it, something that doesn't seem right.

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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Thu Jul 30 2015, 02:13

It's funny, I'd prefer a St buff to AP2. The thought of an Archon wedging it into a dread sarcophagus is too tantalizing not to be able to happen on the table.
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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Thu Jul 30 2015, 09:55

Hmmm...

Huskblade: S: +1. AP -. Rending, Deathtouch*
*Deathtouch: When rolling to wound, compare the wielder's strength to the target's current wounds instead of toughness. A model who takes an unsaved wound from this weapon loses 1d3 wounds instead of 1.

Thoughts?

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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Thu Jul 30 2015, 10:43

The best would be, just make it a funky D weapon. Maybe -1 on the D table like the wraith guard gets.

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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Thu Jul 30 2015, 11:41

The problem you have is that the Archon chassis is very good for CC. WS7, I7 and A4 is great for CC. On the charge he's getting 6 attacks, or 7 on turn 4 (or even turn 2 if you really play for that). That's a ton of attacks and killing potential, even if he's only S3. The problem becomes one of how to give him good wargear that doesn't tip him over the edge of OP. As it stands his wargear is pretty crap. Agonizers are the only real choice. They cost the same as a Husk Blade but wound on a 4+ rather than a 5+ (or worse) against anything T4+. With all the attacks the Archon camp pump out anything with a 3+ save or worse is dead regardless. Sure the Husk Blade can transfer more wounds to a unit after it downs a multi-wound character in a challenge but it's gonna struggle comparatively to get those extra wounds in the first place. So vs 3+ or worse the Agonizer is way more reliable at killing T4+ and actually has an advantage killing anything of T3<. The HB's supposed ID advantage is offset by the sheer number of skilled attacks the Archon gets and the reliability of wounding with poison 4+.

The only thing the Archon has any problem with is 2+ armour because neither the Agonizer nor the Husk Blade can deal with that. I'm not sure I want the Archon to be able to deal with that tbh. The Succubus can deal perfectly well with this with her Archite Glaive, she's the HQ choice for murdering TEQs in CC. Also the Incubi can deal perfectly well with 2+, only stumbling vs CC monster characters (but everything but other CC monster characters struggle against them). Does the Archon need to be a CC monster himself? I think he should be pretty damned handy in CC but I don't feel he needs to rival the Succubus for this role.

This brings up the question: does the Husk Blade need AP2? If it has this then the Archon is a CC beast like every other CC HQ out there. If not then he needs to kill some other role. I don't feel the HB should be boosted to AP2 but it should do something. The Agonizer is over costed I feel. Sure it's a power sword with poison added on but that poison is offsetting the DE crappy S. Marines get power swords for about 10pts (I think) with S4. Paying 2.5x that for a weapon that brings some parity is pretty harsh. Yes low S is one of the built in weaknesses of our army but it's one of a multitude of weaknesses (by design and ill-designed) that make the faction significantly weaker than it needs to be. Lowering the cost of Agonizers to say 15-20pts (18pts seems like a good number but I hate pricing things outside of multiples of 5 - makes list building a pain in the ass) would be a great move. This leaves the HB with it's 25pts cost in a place where it can be buffed without increasing it's cost. But what should it do?

I think the HB should simply have Fleshbane added to it's profile. Anything without a 2+ save is practically dead the moment they enter combat with the Archon. But to deal with TEQ's you're gonna need specialised warriors - Incubi and/or a Succubus. This should be a designed weakness of the DE army. Archons don't rise to their positions by trying to duel walking tank monkeh's. They take the easy kills and direct other more specialised fighters to take down the difficult stuff.

I think the Archon should the guy the enemy doesn't want to engage in CC (for fear of being wiped out) but I also feel he shouldn't be the HQ you want to send into combat either, unless it's to get an easy kill. Giving him AP2 just encourages you to do this and leaves the Succubus hanging for a battlefield role.

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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Thu Jul 30 2015, 11:47

Well put. You have convinced me on the Ap2 debate. Just one last thing for the debate. What about the synergy with Soultrap? Fleshbane (Which I do like) will not benefit from this. Would you say Soultrap and Agoniser is the best combo?
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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Thu Jul 30 2015, 15:24

I don't think Soultrap really works with the current rules. It's not something an Archon should be running with. A Succubus yes, but fluff wise I'm not sure they'd have access to such a device. I think Soultrap would need reworking. Maybe it should be using rules similar to that pistol that heals wounds? Every model killed in a challenge heals the possessor of a Soultrap by 1 wound. If the holder has yet to suffer any lost wounds in the game they gain a single extra wound that must be lost before any other wounds are removed. So long as the bonus wound is in play the model is immune to ID weaponry. If the model suffers an ID wound with the bonus wound standing then they instead lose the bonus wound and revert to their normal amount of wounds and lose the immunity to a single ID hit.

Archons don't need +S on their attacks, they have poison for that. What they do need is a means to stay alive. The above rules will encourage you to play risky by getting the Archon into combat with a character so he can kill them and get the extra wound and ID immunity. This addresses another of the weaknesses of the DE - ID weapons on T3 models. But the overcoming of the weakness requires not only some points investment but some risk management. It also means that once your shadowfield is gone your Archon has a secondary line of defence to try and keep him alive a little longer. Note however that if you play poorly and you let you Archon take damage early he can never gain that bonus wound and ID immunity because he's already injured. The Soultrap can only heal him in this case.

Essentially the Soultrap can make you stronger (like it does now) but it does so by making you more vigorous. This makes more sense for a device that converts slain souls into power for you.

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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Thu Jul 30 2015, 15:34

I was considering a healing and resilience boost too for soul trap. ..though I do like the idea of a powered up Archon hurling his foes around, he won't often be kitted out to match
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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Thu Jul 30 2015, 17:21

Quote :
Husk Blade. Range -. Strength user. AP 3. Special rules: Instant Death, Fleshbane, Deathtouch*
*Deathtouch. If a 6 is rolled when rolling to wound with a Huskblade, the weapon has pierced far enough to scratch the wearer of even the heaviest armour. The wound is resolved as AP 2.
Thats an incredibly cool weapon, much stronger than straight AP 2 fwiw because the number of wounds it successfully inflicts across the spectrum out performs AP 2 on a str 3 model significantly. I really dig it but honestly just substitute rending. I also think it should really be an artefact of cruelty at that power level. Edit- in fact you may consider making it AP 4 instead since fleshbane and rending/ghetto rending add so much already.

@ thread- theres been some rather interesting and differing opinions and experiences so I'd like to share my own.

First I'd just like to draw attention to the fact that we are talking about a foot slogging character who dies to a single failed save vs str 6+. Meanwhile Every flavor of marine sergeant on up can access ID weapons at nearly every level, csm and orks same, daemons and daemonkin too, crons abundantly, eldar basically every weapon in their arsenal and so on. Then consider the vast majority of these codices, no ALL of them have EASY access to toughness 5+ and all bar 2 have access to eternal warriors.
My point is the huskblade on a foot slogging str 3 HQ was never close to busted at AP 2. In fact it was actually borderline underpowered at AP 2 all things considered.

Caveat: AP 3 isn't as bad as it looks [most of the time] since the vast majority of targets are not armour 2+, and those that are usually pack significant invulns and/or eternal warrior anyway, thus the swing is sometimes marginal.. say 16% difference in their favor per wound.

That said the change does matter enough at times to be incredibly annoying. Finally caught a riptide because he messed up or rolled triple 1s and you have a 1/36 chance of doing something. Epic confrontation with that Lucky stikk megaboss, nightmare shrouded D-lord or the plethora of other hard to crack tanks.. *narrative forging intensifies!*.. you strike at init 7 but need 3s to hit, 6s to wound followed by a 1 followed by RP with res orb re-roll or they have eternal warrior or just re-roll armour saves. Fail. Heres a fun fact: a charging lucky stikk megaboss has a higher chance of killing a shadow field archon then the archon has of killing the warboss. WITH an AP 2 huskblade. Or in other words even a BARE T5 guy with 5 x S6 attacks rerolling hits and wounds is scarier than our ID weapon at AP 2.
However it is worth noting that in nearly all these instances the agonizer would not of been any better EXCEPT against eternal warriors.  

On the soul trap. Disappointed at first but surprisingly I have found the utility of this item has actually increased. Hitting any characters instead of just ICs plus increasing strength immediately for each wound caused in a challenge makes quite a difference. It allows the archon to be a decent bully. I've been taking a trap more regularly now then I did the previous version. Still not stellar but I'll take what I can get.
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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Fri Jul 31 2015, 00:41

So...

How does this look?

Husk Blade: S: wielder. AP: 3. Fleshbane, Instant Death.

Artifact:

Djin Blade: S: wielder. AP: 3. Djin cascade*

*Djin Cascade: When wielding this weapon then whenever the wielder rolls a 6 to hit the hit automatically wounds, with the wound resolved at AP2 and with the instant death special rule, and they may roll an additional attack. if this is also a 6, it generates an additional attack. If all of the wielders attacks with this weapon miss they suffer a wound with no saves of any kind allowed.

Re: soul trap.

The soul trap is getting reworked for the codex to be an anti-psyker device that allows the wielder to deny the witch on 2+ and cause perils when a power targeting him rolls a double (because it traps their soul).
The soul trap's +1 strength effect is going to become a standard Succubus ability, Soulfeast.

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Nariaklizhar
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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Fri Jul 31 2015, 05:59

FuelDrop, have seen the thread on this forum "Dark Eldar Homebrew, or balanced 40k and you?" Here is the link:

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t12098-dark-eldar-homebrew-or-balanced-40k-and-you

I ask because I used it as a starting off point when I built my homebrew, which is here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aHTWInUyU8JGesrzQhVj59T3bajIAe-IcusUpBplpQ4/pub

I like many of the ideas you have talked about. Hopefully some of the info above helps
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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Fri Jul 31 2015, 09:11

@Nariaklizhar: I hadn't seen that before. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Fri Jul 31 2015, 09:19

FuelDrop wrote:
The soul trap is getting reworked for the codex to be an anti-psyker device that allows the wielder to deny the witch on 2+ and cause perils when a power targeting him rolls a double (because it traps their soul).
The soul trap's +1 strength effect is going to become a standard Succubus ability, Soulfeast.

I'd love to see a few more soul eating effects in our book to really play up our vampire aspect.

Personally I'd rather not have overt psychic defences, just crucible style artefacts that turn psychic sensitivity into a weakness.

What if the soul trap was a bound one-off psychic shriek effect that synergised with Power from Pain somehow?

Or maybe any time you killed a character you could choose one of their special rules to apply to your archon for the rest of the game? Kill a monstrous creature with a lucky roll from your AP3 husk blade and choose 'Smash', or target a Harlequin Troupe Master for his Hit & Run...

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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Fri Jul 31 2015, 10:31

I like that Idea Creeping Darkness. I am imagining 2 rules...

THe soul trap resonates with psychic tremors and is surrounded by screaming spirits, it pulls at the souls around it. Add +1 to the PfP turn table for holder and all in 6"

Soul eater - An enemy killed in a challenge by the holder abosrbs their soul and gains one of their special rules OR if the soul is a CW Eldar it is sent screaming to Slaanesh unleashing a psychic scream centred on the holder
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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Fri Jul 31 2015, 13:20

Why not just keep the Soultrap as benefiting/strengthening the holder (the DE need some strong self-buffing artifacts) and add some new anti-psyker devices? We alreadyhave the Helm of Spite which makes psykers perils on doubles. I agree that more psychic offense is better than more defense. I think some new Formation (Decurion style) rules should be granting the entire army Adamantium Will anyway, best to add more offense so when that guy shows up with psykers turned up to the max you can nuke him down.

The Crucible is great in concept for a DE artifact. Take a couple Haemies with WWP's and drop those psychic bombs on the enemy witches. I'd also like something a bit more mean though, a deterrent against people using psykers against the DE. Not sure where that Creeping Darkness came from but it's a nice sounding name. How about an artifact - Creeping Darkness. Can be used instead of a shooting attack for a single use only effect. Every Psyker on the table (including your own allied psykers - use with caution) suffers a single S4 AP2 attack with no invul save allowed (FNP should be the only defence against this?). For every psyker on the boardafter the first the S of the attack increases by 1. If an Eldar player shows up with a Seer Council those hits will be enough to insta kill every one of them on the board. Obviously this is significantly strong. Maybe the wielder (it should probably be a Haemonculus as Crucibles are limited to them only) has to roll a test to avoid being nuked in the process. Wielder must make a leadership test at a penalty of -1 for every psyker affected. If he fails he's removed instantly as a casualty, no saves allowed. This thing should cost a lot but the very that it can be taken will force opponents to choose whether they really want to field psykers vs the DE or not. It'd shut down many of those stupid psychic super strategies people use and give the DE a fighting chance.

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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex: The Huskblade   Sun Aug 09 2015, 19:18

Late to the party here, but if the original suggestion was made an artefact, I don't think it would be overpowered. Not in an edition where we have Chapter Master Smashfuc*er, Wraithknights, Imperial Knights, super heavies and such.

There's this bizzare idea that because Archons are fragile, they should also be really weak in combat (hence why their best weapons are S3 AP3 Poison 4+, whilst other HQs are touting weapons that can beat dreadnoughts to death and still strike at initiative). The point is, that's the exact opposite of what a glass cannon is supposed to be. They're supposed to be really deadly - because their main defence is killing enemies before they can strike back.

I just don't get how people apparently do so well with their archons, using weapons that would embarrass a butter-knife.

Also, for the record, a 25pt weapon on an Archon is the equivalent of a 50pt weapon on a Chapter Master. Just saying.
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