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deekthegreat
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PostSubject: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Tue Jul 28 2015, 22:17

I have an 1850 itc tournament coming up in the next week or so and I have 3 armies to pick from one being dark eldar my only issue I have with using dark eldar is they for me in my local meta don't stack up well against the skyhammer formation and the mass knight and the admech bs that has been released I read some bodies tournament bat rep about dark eldar kicking ass and taking names but I just feel worn out playing them since everyone around me can bring their stupid cheese bringing flamer heavy ignore covering wounding on 2s rerolling invulnerable and armour save crap it just has worn me out. Having never played against a deamons summoning list before I did a few weeks ago I cranked out a victory but I used eldar allies. Any idea on what to do to bring back my evil dark kin spirit I need a lot of models to be able to run stuff so I don't know what to do so any idea helps
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Wed Jul 29 2015, 03:44

For me, getting beat up my Flamer, Ignore Cover type weapons turned me away from slimmer heavy builds to a more resilient style of play. I now run the Covenite Coterie w/ Dark Artisan formation and it kicks some ass pretty well. Granted, it does require a completely different playstyle but not having to worry about cover so much, nor if I don't get to go first in a game, is no longer such a big deal.

Grotesques, Webways and Talos FTW buddy

But if you can't field those sorts of units, then changing your tactics with your current army is the way to go. Null Deployment mixed with Infiltrating Mandrakes seems to be a decent option if you still want Alpha Strike from reserve....

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ravengoescaw
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Wed Jul 29 2015, 04:35

I know how you feel. The new codexes, and my meta has changed my reason to play, and goal of playing. I have stopped caring about a win, I just want to be a challenge. My answer for this was my reaver spam list. I expect t will be a threat against alot of armies but not likely to win against most. I have found my give a darn about winning is gone. Because at least in the local meta pure Dark Eldar is an auto-lose most of the time. My focus has fallen even farther from game play and has become more focused on painting and modeling. The only advice is play a list you are going to have fun with. For me it was a reaver spam, because I love the unit, model wise, fluff wise and game play wise. Once I have the models done I will be putting up battle reps. Probably with a comedic twist.

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deekthegreat
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Wed Jul 29 2015, 05:41

Well at this point I feel like it's time to shelve the dark kin I have been meta busting in my local meta but now that the few players I get to play with just use the war convocation I can't find out a good way to deal with it besides match the chess with way harder cheese of eldar d spam every where.
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deekthegreat
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Wed Jul 29 2015, 05:44

When thunder wolves were the big thing I destroyed everyone with dark eldar when draigo star was huge I destroyed every one with dark eldar now admech and I just can't do anything to nothing
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ravengoescaw
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Wed Jul 29 2015, 06:08

keep your chin up, or take a break. I will let you know how the reavers do.

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deekthegreat
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Wed Jul 29 2015, 06:39

Alright I think the problem is that I don't follow the new stuff closely and I don't see ways to beat them until.someone else explains how to do it. I know I can't take 3 knights and the rest of the convocation that's just to much armour for a dark eldar list to handle
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Nariaklizhar
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Wed Jul 29 2015, 16:28

For the longest time I refused to use Eldar Allies. In my meta, I started converting Eldar Models into Dark Eldar, and just use Eldar rules. For example, I use Fire dragons instead of Trueborn. All the models look like Dark Eldar, but play more competatively. My 3 windriders are converted reavers. This way I still get the look and feel of Dark Eldar and can compete with the best of them. Fluff wise I just say its all Dark Eldar. This strategy has got me excited about the game again.
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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Wed Jul 29 2015, 16:44

Honestly I'm not overly familiar with the convocation either outside of what I've read since no one here plays them. I know Geoff 'iNcontroL' took 2nd at BAO with his convo splashing into cullexus and flesh tearer pods + an imperial knight. Besides that they are already sporting weaponry straight from pre heresy era. If your facing that kinda sh*t then it does get tiring day to day because about 90% of every codex is invalid from the start when designing lists.

My advice mix it up man. The arms race gets old quick. Drop down to a different pts level like 1k to 1.5k, roll up lists for single source play etc. Or i.e. get some people to back off the competitive attempts. It proves nothing although it can be fun here and there. My group has been around a looong time so we need to keep it real or it gets tiring. We cycle through 'no holds barred' type lists to near fluff bunny levels. Both are fun but the latter holds our attention longer because so much more of the spectrum is valid. Player skill doesn't change, just the level of commitment to winning.

I have also done what Nariaklizhar is doing.. counting eldar as dark eldar and modelling them as such. It can reinvigorate your gaming and definitely brings moar power!!!!!!! I've actually moved back to pure recently and I'm liking that better atm. Eldar units are too good so I don't enjoy using them near as much.

Otoh correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you had your day in the sun and now other armies are giving you problems. thems the breaks. Just from you mentioning flamer heavy makes me think these guys were tailoring to beat you. Meaning they probably felt like they needed the extra edge at some point right? Take this opportunity to step outside your comfort zone of what you play. I don't say this assuming you are anything, vet or new doesn't matter. I have established 'auto include units' that I force myself to break away from every now and again, you probably do too.. and changing it up is how I actually come to new favorite auto includes. They earn their spot.

Finally, if your army is dope people will want to play you. Let them know what your NOT into facing. If dude rolls up with 36 windriders its game off. I'm down for any game really but I have friendly and busted lists. Which I break out is agreed to before hand. You could do the same. Does everyone you know play eldar/skyhammer/decurion/IK/admec? If so you could just move on to a different scene.

Anyway just some friendly ideas man.
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SCP Yeeman
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Wed Jul 29 2015, 16:52

I have felt like this multiple times with DE over the years. What it has lead to is a change in my playstyle and the units I bring. I would use this time now as an excuse to paint up new models you have and use units you have never used before. Play units because you simply have not played them before. Paint new units and throw a list together using them.

Have fun playing this mish-mash of a list and then incorporate those things you do like and are effective into a new and improved list. Also, splashing in allies of any kind can give a new perspective to the game. Desperate/CtA Allies can be a game in itself on the tabletop.
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deekthegreat
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Wed Jul 29 2015, 18:14

The meta around here at least in my small.town is knights admech and space marines. The few stores I'm aware of are ether super small games in the zone of kill teams or 1850 itc games. I was having luck with dark eldar because everyone around here hadnt fought their new codex only their old one and people pass them off as crap and then their jaws dropped when that draigo star got wiped in 2 turns and thunder wolves spam gets wiped in 4 I haven't been really using auto include stuff just throwing things together to have fun with but yes people tend to tailor against me when they spam the flamers the 2 people that play the war convocation that I'm aware of use either 3 knights or the hell storm template flamer dude from.forge world.

I'm thinking about trying different stuff but I can't afford the Harliquin stuff sounds like that list is really cool. I want to use eldar stuff but not the spam of bikes that gets used I like the hemlock wraith fighter and the crimson hunter and the 30 guardian's that get to move 12 inches a turn with battle focus. I have a beautiful eldrad painted up just gotta get him on the table.

Dark eldar appealed to me because they were different and play fast and hit hard against the right things but it saddens me that as new codexes come out and things get the decurion style detachment that dark eldar don't even get what makes them special and that's speed I suppose at this time I can work on some new dark eldar stuff and getting a bug army together
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der-al
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Wed Jul 29 2015, 18:53

Everything people have already said is good, mix it up unit wise, include more resilient units for flamers (grotesquery and either of the pain engine formations from the coven supplement are good) and don’t be scared to include some Craftworld allies. Infact the Aspect Host formation is perfect for this and doesn’t have to include any real tax. Any three units of aspect warriors all with either +1 to BS or WS. The bonus being that a lot of the aspect warriors, although failcast are good fun to paint.

My three preferred aspects are Fire Dragons, Dark Reapers and Swooping Hawks . I’m sure I don’t have to tell anyone what Fire dragons do, but they changed my meta away from silly big LOW with stupidly big template weapons and what not, within a month. A unit of fire dragons in a raider with WWP kills all known vehicles dead the turn they turn up. Dark reapers are now the perfect skimmer / bike killers and do okay at AA. Swooping Hawks, now they’re what scourges should be. Assault 3 S3 24” guns, all models come stock with haywire grenades (I miss my haywire wyches) and can even vector strike swooping or zooming flyers, the perfect utility unit really. Don’t leave home without two units of seven.
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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Wed Jul 29 2015, 20:10

Well your kinda stuck for opponents although I still say try something different first.

That said if new avenues don't pan out then I agree aspect formation is pretty much custom made for DE really. Load up on disi ravagers HL scourges and triple dragons inside raiders- no taxes required and you will destroy marines and IKs without much effort bypassing ion shields from inside your WWP raiders. Pretty unfun though.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Wed Jul 29 2015, 20:38

The only unfun thing is that a fire dragon formation is cheaper than 3 units of trueborn while having better armor, more special weapons, more AT weapons and a higher BS.
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deekthegreat
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Wed Jul 29 2015, 21:07

Yea that's also the thing that discourages me from playing the dark kin more the cwe get it cheaper and do everything wayyyyyyyyy better
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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Wed Jul 29 2015, 22:35

My advice: give up Smile

There's nothing in the Dark Eldar codex that can match what the new codices are capable of. They're better than you, they're more resilient than you, and they cost less points than you, so there are more of them. That's not our fault: someone somewhere just didn't consider the Dark Eldar important enough to bother too much with. Our codex was just something to get out of the way, so that they could move on to more important things.

You can ally with Craftworld Eldar, but you really might as well just play Craftworld Eldar. Start with a few as allies as you transition from one army to the other. You might still keep a few raiders and webway portals, which the Craftworlders can make better use of than the Dark Eldar can.

Haemonculus Covens are also stronger than 'regular' Dark Eldar, but they're still not going to take down a bunch of Wraithknights and Titans.

The bottom line is, if you like them then play them, but don't punish yourself by expecting to do well. Just have fun and don't give a toss. Or start a new, better army. Or do as I have: keep collecting Dark Eldar, but give up on 40K for the foreseeable future. Smile
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lelith
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Wed Jul 29 2015, 23:09

@Barking Agatha wrote:

The bottom line is, if you like them then play them, but don't punish yourself by expecting to do well. Just have fun and don't give a toss.

LIKE

When I play pure DE, I feel like playing a hardcore mode. If I lose, that's it. If I win? It feels sooooo good Wink

And everybody plays the strong faction, thus just enjoy our uniqueness.

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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Thu Jul 30 2015, 04:23

Honestly I've done a retake recently on our dex. Ya theres some stinkers in there, but the parts that function are great. Not OP'd great or no brainer great but takes some thought and in return rewarding great. If anything its really the last few dexes that they effed up by just handing out candy.
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shadowseercB
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Thu Jul 30 2015, 05:12

Look into some of the craftworld formations. You can take those if you wish and they complement our true kin very well. You can even come up with very come up with very unique and powerful combos.

I know how you feel though man.

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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Thu Jul 30 2015, 21:18

@Brom wrote:
Honestly I've done a retake recently on our dex. Ya theres some stinkers in there, but the parts that function are great. Not OP'd great or no brainer great but takes some thought and in return rewarding great. If anything its really the last few dexes that they effed up by just handing out candy.

Sure, you could look at it that way. The fact remains though, that they did hand out candy, while we remain un-candied, as it were. If they had made every codex austere, that would have been fine. If they had made every codex a candyfest, that would have been fine too. But what we have is some codices that got more candy than they can possibly bear, while we got stuck with the austerity program.

And for some people, it's still fine. You can play your other army, and/or ally them in. You can see the power of Craftworld Eldar as a welcome addition to your army. It just doesn't do it for me: I want my guys to kick arse on their own, and I can't switch allegiances that easily. That's just me and how I relate to the game, though.

I would suggest to GW that what they really sell isn't models, or rules. What they really sell is the fantasy of being a terrifying space fairy (or a super-human warrior monk, or a space viking, or a fanatical cyborg, or whatever). Without that fantasy, they're just little plastic dudes and a lot of dice chucking.

But again, that's just me. Maybe I'm in the minority? Smile
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Thu Jul 30 2015, 21:26

I'm not a fairy! I'm the peak of the creation of the old ones! I'm the master of the tainted Reborn! I'm the liberator of Eldar slaves and the thief of bodies! I'm the bane for billions of lesser creatures! I'm the night mare of true born Eldar.
I. Am. Kerberos!
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Thu Jul 30 2015, 21:46

@Barking Agatha wrote:
they did hand out candy, while we remain un-candied, as it were.

Dark Eldar...

We are the Charlie Browns of the warhammer world!

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lawlskees
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Tue Aug 11 2015, 08:07

I honestly don't know what kind of lists you guys are running. I mean, yea 3 imperial knights can be tough, but playing to the objectives wins the game. Hide all game then turbo boost turn 5 to all the objectives. Fight cheese with tactical cheese then just laugh in their face when their " buy the biggest toy and win" mentality didn't work out for them.

I'm currently undeafeted in a local 3 month tournament that's going on in my area with my list. I also only have one more match to go and I'm paired against tyranids... Lol. Also I just took 3rd at a duos tournament with my buddy who plays grey knights. We were at the top table and we only lost because we screwed up on deployment, nothing to do with me rolling DE.

Dark eldar are a niche army that requires a lot of knowledge about the game and how it works, while knowing what every unit is capable of. Building a solid list that compliments the units it has is key. Dark eldar are NOT BAD, and are SUPER COMPETITIVE. Many are under the impression of otherwise, and this is why I play them. Become the sleeper who ROFL STOMPS them unexpectedly. Too many people think dark eldar suck and they are dead wrong. If you think this you are absolutely playing them wrong. And FYI - anyone who wins any of those high end tournies aren't running fluff lists, but dark eldar kinda can. I also use NO allies and no super heavies. Lords of war usually give extra objective points too.. Which is BAD!

If you need list tips just email me at lawlskees@gmail.com and I'd be glad to help.
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lawlskees
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Tue Aug 11 2015, 08:11

Oh, and I play against people who run farsight bomb and 3 wraith knight lists... I don't just play tyranids... Lmao. I'll be at the Las Vegas open in February, and guess what I'm brining? Dark eldar
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lawlskees
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for a worn out archon   Tue Aug 11 2015, 08:17

The best part about playing dark eldar? When my opponent thinks it's going to be an easy win and I table him by turn 3.
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