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The Red King
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Tantalus Bomb   Tue Jul 28 2015, 21:19

So I'm thinking of trying to get a forgeworld tantalus. Mostly just because it looks awesome. It's expensive but does rock Av12 (heavy for Dark Eldar) and it has 5 HP. It shoots 12 str5 ap2 shots and can "vector strike" for d6 str7 ap2 hits against non vehicles or one auto hit at str7 ap2 with armor bane. I don't see any reason it can't hit flyers. It costs too much at 215 base, but it looks amazing for a centerpiece, also it carries 16 models, which in my mind is 7 wraithguard with strD flamers, a farseer for psychic powers and an archon for no scatter, ld debuffs (in a giant bubble since the tantalus is huge) and a little CC power.

The vehicle and wraiths can shoot two different units giving a decent chance of wiping out 2 units. Plus the farseer can drop a psychic shriek with -2 ld or -4 if the lists harlequins are nearby. Resulting in possibly 3 devastated units.

I know the D is kind of cheese and I'd probably bring grots or wraith blades to a friendly game, but against the more competitive armies and LoW's..

I don't know. It's super pricey but no one has done anything like it as far as I can tell and it seems like it could be a giant surprise.

It's also got an autarch for reserve manipulation.

Thoughts?

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Tue Jul 28 2015, 22:21

You can't pack enough firepower onto it to completely break an enemy army. And the return fire is going to suck the big one. It's a very fragile vehicle for such a high points cost.

That being said, it will probably work very well against people who've never seen a Tantalus or don't know what to do about it. Frequent opponents should be able to reject and deflect with minimal difficulty, though.

All in all: beautiful model. I want one. (Badly.) But I don't think it's a great competitive choice.
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Tue Jul 28 2015, 22:29

Well the list is also running two shadowseers and a,farseer in the bomb. Dance of shadows giving you a lovely 2+ jink as well as providing more shrieks and ld debuffs. Or the farseer might pull invis.

I don't know anyone who knows how to fight a tantalus just because who has actually ever seen it on the table. It's not going to automatically win but it could put out some serious hurt.

Anyone know the size? I would proxy a few games if I knew.

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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Wed Jul 29 2015, 05:14

What's dance of shadows?

ROUGH size estimate wound be two raiders side-by-side.
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Wed Jul 29 2015, 05:28

A harlequin power granting stealth and shrouded to a unit. I understand only 1 pen needs to get through to ruin its day but it's still durable by our standards and capable of delivering a whole lot of hurt out of nowhere. Very fluffy.

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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Wed Jul 29 2015, 06:30

Its still a power that you have to roll on and chances are you wont roll that power so dont rely on it for your list to work.

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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Wed Jul 29 2015, 14:02

No but with 2 shadowseers rolling on that table (actually fishing for mirror of minds) you've got a chance. And with the farseer rolling for invis you may come up with shrouding to do the same thing (though you'd have to disembark which leaves them less effective).

Like I said, this isn't the entire army. A cast of players and a heroes path formation as well as your obligatory troops venoms. An autarch plus shining spears (no I will not stop loving them). Windriders and rangers. This unit isn't going to land and win the game, but it's going to land and potentially shift the momentum hard as well as absorbing some firepower. It has a FF base in case they ignore your, at worst 3+ cover save. And being AV12 it won't be drowned in saves by bolters.

Just pick the most dangerous unit in his army, land and delete it with D. Proceed to shriek and use the pulse disintegrators to decimate potentially 3 targets from this one boat and hopefully the enemy isn't overly full of answers to it if you prioritize targets.

In theory I don't think it will have trouble making up its points. I'll try it out proxy sometime this week and let yall know.

Or if anone else does please let me now.

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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Wed Jul 29 2015, 22:52

How are you casting Dance of Shadows while embarked on the vehicle? I thought embarked units were limited to Witchfires only.
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Wed Jul 29 2015, 23:19

They are. The harlequins are outside the transport. Protected by veil of tears most likely. Or dance of shadows.

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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Thu Jul 30 2015, 14:14

First I want to say that I love my Tantalus and play him all the time in Friendly Games.  

In Competitive play he just doesn't belong.   I am sorry.  200+ points for something that is 1 shot by a single Lazcanon is just not worth it.  Now if I could give it something that would lower pens to glances or something else that would make it awesome.

Also one thing to point out is the nerfed the Tantalus in the last Vehicle update.  Sad  Its only 4 Hull Points now.  Sad


http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/v/vehicle6thupdates.pdf
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Fri Jul 31 2015, 00:25

The Tantalus bomb is real; I’ve seen it played and have played it with great success. Although there is a potentiality that the Tantalus dies shortly after arriving on the board, the Tantalus bomb has good burst damage and starts making a board impact the turn it shows up. Additionally, Wraith Guard have enough toughness and good enough saves to survive an exploding Tantalus. Furthermore, a player running the Tantalus bomb can choose to deep strike the archon and Wraith Guard without the Tantalus and instead start the Tantalus on the table as a distraction.
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Fri Jul 31 2015, 01:12

Thank you for the input. I'll be testing it tomorrow hopefully.

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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Fri Jul 31 2015, 01:20

Let us know how it turns out.
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Fri Jul 31 2015, 05:54

I'm also quite interested in the results!

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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Sat Aug 01 2015, 00:10

I think it should work very well and will be testing my own list on that idea tonight in a three way battle of myself, IG, and Marines and I'll tell you how mine went. I actually posted the list a couple days ago, I titled it "Tantalus, battlesuits" in case you want to see someone elses take on a tantalist.
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Sat Aug 01 2015, 00:11

Game got moved to tomorrow. Let me know.

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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Sat Aug 01 2015, 00:17

What about 12 slyths and an archon? The slyth would cause a lot of damage with their shard carabine (36 twin link poison shot), and will probably survive the explosion of the tantalus, charging into units next turn.
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Sat Aug 01 2015, 00:23

I think it's viable, I just feel that to make the tantalus "competitive" requires maximum damage output.

Any use of the Tantalus noted here would be greatly appreciated. I feel like it's a very written off option that could breath a little life into an archon looking to make a "new" list.

Maybe even serve as a spoiler because I know in all my gaming groups no one would recognize it.

I should state that my list is probably not competitive as I'm bringing the Avatar of Khaine. With an autarch to almost guarantee the tantalus arrival and harlequins to dance of shadows the avatar (as well as giving him crusader to hopefully keep him alive)

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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Sat Aug 01 2015, 09:55

I would fill it with Medusae.
I only think something like Warriors, Trueborn or Slyth would be worth it if thre Tantalus could take Splinter Racks, but it can't.
So I would throw in as many Medusae as I can, add a HQ unit with Webway Portal, and drop that sucker next to the biggest or most valuable unit. THATS how you deal with a horde.
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Sat Aug 01 2015, 13:47

I know most people don't interchange their eldar so readily but for the sake of competition I still think D scythe wraithguard are the most competitive choice

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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Sun Aug 02 2015, 07:28

Sorry to double post but I got the game in. Tantalus bomb removed logan grimnar and a squad of thunder wolf cavalry in one turn. Then wiped another squad of termies plus their psyker. My opponent rage quit after that. The vehicle itself never even firea and still made its points back.

I'll continue testing but I must tread lightly, this thing damages friendships.

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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Sun Aug 02 2015, 08:16

Actually, it is the combination of D-weapon & WWP that really damages friendships Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Sun Aug 02 2015, 14:59

How much damage was inflicted by the vehicle vs the passengers?

I'd be interested to see a br from the same opponent, now that he knows what he's up against. (Don't get me wrong, sucker punch games are great fun, but in my experience aren't always the best indicators of viability.)
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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Sun Aug 02 2015, 17:41

The vehicle never shot because the passengers killed everything in LoS. It wouldn't be possible without the vehicle to carry them and allow all 7 flamers to shoot the same spot as well as expanding the Armour of misery debuff far enough to make psychic scream truly dangerous (with the shadowseer nearby as well)

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PostSubject: Re: Tantalus Bomb   Mon Aug 03 2015, 05:54

Sorry for taking so long to post this but I wanted to triple check the effectiveness. We played three games with each of us playing the same list each time.

Game 1: 2nd place, DS Tantalus with eight liquifier grots in it turn three and took out a rhino with the marine's HQ squad and the grots got the squad with ap1, lasted two more turns wreaking havoc on both opponents and withstanding every lascannon and krak grenade they had.

Game 2: 3rd place, tried starting on table due to going first and targeted the IG player, all their transports and most troops dead by time it was blown up, got third due to focusing on IG player too much.

Game 3: 1st place, DS again and took out IG command squad and transport, focused rest of army on capping points and killing marines.

Overall I'd say it's effective but pray you make your saves, every time it got hit once they had strong enough shots to pen and rolled high. On average though especially in a tournament where they've never seen one before you have a serious advantage if you fill it with the right troops.
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