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FuelDrop
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Homebrew Codex Help   Mon Jul 27 2015, 10:06

Okay, for anyone who doesn't know I'm writing up a homebrew codex (check it out here). The problem is fairly simple: I'm not a Coven player and have little experience with Coven units.

So, I want some people to talk to me about their favorite Coven toys. What's fantastic, what's rubbish, how would you make it more awesome, and how would you fix it?

I look forwards to perusing the replies.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex Help   Mon Jul 27 2015, 10:29

Off the top of my head, the things that annoy me with Covens are:

Pain Engines not being in mixed units (ie 1-3 Pain Engines of any type)
Pain Engines not getting PfP
Wracks being pretty useless
Haemonculi being overpriced and underpowered - they need to have more impact personally rather than just through buffing PfP

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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex Help   Mon Jul 27 2015, 10:51

@Count Adhemar: What role would you like Wracks to fill in your army? If you feel they're pretty useless, what are they being useless at doing?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex Help   Mon Jul 27 2015, 10:55

Pretty much anything really. They've got some good shooting weapons but not enough to be considered a ranged unit. In combat they're average at best. They're no longer troops so they can't camp objectives reliably. They're kind of jack of all trades, master of none. They need a defined role and they don't really have one.

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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex Help   Mon Jul 27 2015, 11:18

Well, Wracks are becoming troops again for this codex (That way we have 3 troops choices, one for each type of army). I'm thinking that keeping them an assault unit is probably the best option, simply because I lack the ability to actually manufacture any models and change things.

So, they can't camp very well on an objective but come with two poisoned CC weapons as standard. Hmmm...

The entire gimmick of Coven armies is that they're slower than their Kabal brethren, but they're also scary-hard to put down without serious firepower. In theory they wade into battle disdainful of wounds that would kill normal beings.

With this in mind, let's look at making Wracks into a tarpit unit.
Toughness 4 is a good stat for a human-sized model, but 6+ followed by 5+ FNP is not impressing anyone. High weapon skill and large number of attacks is the Wyches gimmick for this codex, so giving Wracks a 4+ FNP (which they can improve to 3+ via pain tokens) would fit with them being more of a tarpit unit.

Still, a 4+ save that's hard to get through on a melee unit is once again Wychcraft, so we need something more to distinguish the two.

Making Fear standard on Coven units is probably a good move, but what's Fear these days? In any case, making them terror troops takes away from Hellions. Standing back up is the Necron gimmick. They lack grenades and giving grenades to them seems outside of their character. Poison? Please, every man and his dog has poison in this army. Rage and or hatred? Not really the feel for wracks. Really, being tough is their defining feature.

So, my initial thoughts for changes:

FNP 4+, Fear (for all coven units), and 2 wounds each. If the enemy doesn't have strength 8+ then good luck getting through even a small squad with that.

Thoughts?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex Help   Mon Jul 27 2015, 11:44

That's starting to look good. Will probably come down to point cost as to whether they are worthwhile.

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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex Help   Mon Jul 27 2015, 11:55

Well, let's see how they stack up to Melee Space Marine Scouts, at 11 points a pop, since the two are fairly similar.

They have comparable melee output, with the poison negating the lower strength.

They have comparable saves, with 4+ armour vs 4+ FNP being slightly in the Wrack's ballpark.

Gear loadout? Scouts win hands down. Scouts have Krak and Frag grenades, and Ranged weapons. Wracks have neither standard.

Leadership? Wracks will have access to Fearless through their PFP equivalent, while scouts are ATSKNF which is arguably better.

Scouts also have chapter tactics, which is again going up against PFP equivalent.

Scouts get infiltration, scouting, stealth, all of which the Wracks do not get. Scouts also get their sarge for free.

Given that, I'm going to say that 9-10 points for a Wrack isn't really that out of the ballpark. You're losing out on quite a lot of offensive capacity and flexibility for the purpose of being seriously tough.

Would that be a cost-effective price?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex Help   Mon Jul 27 2015, 12:24

I'd say 9 points at most.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Homebrew Codex Help   Mon Jul 27 2015, 23:40

Last edition, when they could be Troops, and when they had realistic chances of getting to reroll to wound, they were much better.
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