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The Red King
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PostSubject: Dark Eldar Psykers    Sat Jul 18 2015, 16:18

So this AoS stuff has had my mind abuzz with possibilities and I think I'll share my maddest ravings here.

So Slaneesh is having his happy behind removed from fantasy. That got me thinking; what would happen if they do the same?

Imagine we captured Slaneesh like the dark elves did, stolen suns style. It seems unreasonable but if we look at the current state of the dark city, slaneesh in fantasy and the endtime prophecies of the eldar phoenix cults and the harlequins.

When the Elday God of death awakens she will defeat slaneesh.

When slaneesh devours too many souls it is vulnerable.

Cegorach has a plan to turn slaneesh' strength against her to defeat her.

We already know one half of the powers that be (namely Malys) is under sway of the laughing god and she is not helping stop the daemons clawing at the gate.

What if she wants she who thirsts to get into the dark city. Cegorach will fight valiantly to stop her but be "defeated" and maybe killed. Slaneesh feasts wantonly on the dark city until the dwarhammer of our millions summons Ynnead. In Slaneesh glutted state she is defeated releasing the eldar gods consumed so long ago.

Now how slaneesh remains a prisoner of the dark eldar would be murky. Maybe stolen away in the confusion. Maybe consigned to imprisonment with the very posses off masters of torture would tickle asuryans fancy, who knows.

Either way we end up with a chained up god in our proverbial basement that we torture power out of.

Sounds like a fitting retribution from those who once owned the galaxy.

Thoughts?

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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Sat Jul 18 2015, 17:55

Eh no need for psykers if we could US the anti psykers crap we are suppose to have fluff wise. The helm is a nice thing but broken spirit stones that help protect from psykers pulses and such. Sorry for run on sentence.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Sat Jul 18 2015, 18:00

It's fine. It's more of a fluff discussion rather than a game play one.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Sat Jul 18 2015, 18:14

We still could not have psykers as the other 3 Choas gods are still a thing and the ban of psykers is not because of Slaanesh alone but because ANY use of Warp powers in the webway can possibly breach open gates and cause an incursion.

Ynnead could defeat Slaanesh by ripping all Souls of dead eldar (Slaanshs strenght) from her, weaken her and slay her in her weakened state while Ynnead houses now the power of all dead eldar.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Sat Jul 18 2015, 19:08

Conceptually, I like the Dark Kin not having psykers, because it reinforces our yin to the Craftworlder's yang.

I'd like to see the execution of that concept in the rules be a little more balanced and thought out, however. In theory, where the Craftworld Eldar have psykers, we have anti-psyker tech and Power From Pain, and where the Craftworld Eldar have Battle Focus, we should have the superior skill and physical attributes that the lore says we have.

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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Sat Jul 18 2015, 20:54

In terms of psykers we don't only have no access to them, but DE simply became numb when it comes to psyker powers (which was also nicely pointed out in Path of the Archon).

However, I think the DE fluff offers enough that we could easily have "pseudo-psykers". If you look at the Biomancy table, all powers are laughably easy for a master Haemonculus to perform.

Now, I'm not implying that Haemoncului should be treated as Psykers, but they should have access to gear/rules that let's them at least play a similar role.


Another thing which is often overseen is one of Commorragh's own places: Aelindrach. Not much known is about this place, but considering that this place exists in multiple dimensions and give Mandrakes the power to emerge from the shadows basically everywhere, I think stronger individuals could harness the power of this place for a more powerful applications.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Sun Jul 19 2015, 01:29

I like the idea of giving the Heamonculus more support style buffing abilities.

I like the idea of anti-psykers even better. I've used my Medusa as a culexus assassin. It would be cool if we got an elite or HQ that served a similar purpose. Maybe an addition to the court of the Archon.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Sun Jul 19 2015, 01:50

Dark Eldar should not have psykers. It's been part of our identity since conception, and it's one of the things that set us apart from most other armies and in particular from other Eldar armies.

However, we should have the tech advantage to compensate, and I'd be more than happy with devices that are so advanced they invoke Clark's 3rd law.

Remember the Shattershard? A weaponized mirror that was so advanced that it looked like a vanity mirror? That was awesome. No-one had anything like it, and as a result it felt really cool.

A bunch of 1-shot items that grant bonuses to the squad for the round would be awesome. How about a device that we can activate to auto-succeed on a deny the witch against one hex or witchfire? Or a shield that grants 3+ cover for one phase to one squad? or a time dilation device that doubles our number of attacks and gives us rerolls for one assault phase? Or a one-shot teleport, which can be expended to dodge fire like warp spiders? Or a bomb that the voidraven can carry that makes anyone hit treat the next turn as nightfighting?

You get my point. We don't need to have psykers to get cool force multipliers (which should be cheap enough that several squads can be packing them), but we sure need some force multipliers or else we're never going to be competitive.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Sun Jul 19 2015, 16:49

I like the idea of causing night fighting in game.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Sun Jul 19 2015, 18:39

We don't need psyker. And we shouldn't get them. We should have more weird stuff for dirty tricks. More stuff against psyker...

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Sun Jul 19 2015, 19:24

@FuelDrop wrote:
Dark Eldar should not have psykers. It's been part of our identity since conception, and it's one of the things that set us apart from most other armies and in particular from other Eldar armies.

However, we should have the tech advantage to compensate, and I'd be more than happy with devices that are so advanced they invoke Clark's 3rd law.

Remember the Shattershard? A weaponized mirror that was so advanced that it looked like a vanity mirror? That was awesome. No-one had anything like it, and as a result it felt really cool.

A bunch of 1-shot items that grant bonuses to the squad for the round would be awesome. How about a device that we can activate to auto-succeed on a deny the witch against one hex or witchfire? Or a shield that grants 3+ cover for one phase to one squad? or a time dilation device that doubles our number of attacks and gives us rerolls for one assault phase? Or a one-shot teleport, which can be expended to dodge fire like warp spiders? Or a bomb that the voidraven can carry that makes anyone hit treat the next turn as nightfighting?

You get my point. We don't need to have psykers to get cool force multipliers (which should be cheap enough that several squads can be packing them), but we sure need some force multipliers or else we're never going to be competitive.

That was exactly what I've been thinking too.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Sun Jul 19 2015, 20:02

I think we should have a bonus for not having it. Tau do. Same with anything that doesn't have psykers. Khorne Daemonkin get stuff to HELP them denine abilities
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Sun Jul 19 2015, 20:09

What bonus do Tau get for not having any psyker?

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Sun Jul 19 2015, 21:14

They have fantastic shooting to make up for the lack of psyker support Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Sun Jul 19 2015, 22:55

Eldar can do that better. AND have great psyker

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Thu Jul 23 2015, 17:05

My thoughts when 7th ed came in was that we should be able to deny the witch on a 2+ and everyone's ML is their leadership -8. This helps squad leaders be worth their points too. Or instead have +1 to the pool for each PGL
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Thu Jul 23 2015, 17:24

I would love to see us have more anti-psyker stuff than any other army. We hate it, we fear it, we take steps to painfully mock those who delve in it.

That aside, I loved what Dark Elves do with magic and could have at one point seen the potential for psychotic psykers. If anything, powers related to soul-stealing would be appealing. Sapping unit stats and LD would represent that well. Imagine if we could apply -T modifiers to units for example.

I still think expanding on the Haemonculus to provide that kind of support is the way to go.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Thu Jul 23 2015, 23:19

To my mind, we shouldn't have access to psykers or psyhic powers, but the Culexus Assassin is a perfect example of the sneaky and powerful sort of anti-psyker abilities we should have.

And Mandrakes are the scariest, most appropriate vehicle for these abilities. So, for some time now I have been using an attached Culexus and calling it a Mandrake character of sorts, with quite a bit of success. It is a huge distraction, if nothing else, and unexpected. But also very durable and solid in combat. Fun times.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Fri Jul 24 2015, 00:10

Like the idea, think its a lot more plausible in 40k that a chaos god gets taken down compared to fantasy, or whatever it is called now Sad

Fluff wise it'd be a major change in tone for the DE (showing true power and all that)
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Fri Jul 24 2015, 00:20

Well I'm working on a homebrew codex at the moment, and am looking at anti-psyker toys for the DE.

One thing I plan on having is a one-use auto-deny device that works against hexes and witchfire that can be purchased for squad leaders/HQs.

thoughts?

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Fri Jul 24 2015, 00:35

D.E. need force multiples like the marker lights, squigs, orders, SM version of orders or psychic powers for other armies. Without being those things.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Fri Jul 24 2015, 01:41

@ravengoescaw wrote:
D.E. need force multiples like the marker lights, squigs, orders, SM version of orders or psychic powers for other armies. Without being those things.

very good point

Considering how advanced DE are you'd think this would be top priority for codex writers, image the types of equipment they could get away with

off the top of my head; how about instead of a heavy weapon a squad can take 6+ backpack shield generator (affects whole squad)

stuff like that can't be overly hard...can it?
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Fri Jul 24 2015, 06:06

I guess that is what power from Pain was for...

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Fri Jul 24 2015, 06:12

@CptMetal wrote:
I guess that is what power from Pain was for...

IF that is the case, then the mechanic really needs to be completely re done. Or you are not sure what a force multiplier is.


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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Psykers    Fri Jul 24 2015, 07:16

This is a cut and paste from my Homebrew codex thread. Go and check it out here.

Quote :
Devices Arcane.

This is a new segment of Wargear designed to give us an edge and compensate for our lack of psykers. These will cost points to purchase, generally around 5-10 points each with some exceptions. Any character or vehicle may purchase 1 of these (making them available to all squads via squad leaders), though vehicles do not have access to the full range. The exceptions are the Dracon, who may take up to 3, and our Archons, who can take a whopping 5 devices. This list is by no means complete, and I would love for more suggestions. Items marked with an * may be taken by vehicles.

Cloak of shadows* (One use only): This device projects a momentary field of total darkness around the user and their squad, allowing them to vanish from sight. Use either during the enemy shooting phase or the DE assault phase (for overwatch protection). For the remainder of that phase the user and their squad gain the shrouded special rule and all units shooting at them consider it to be night fighting. (This means Stealth if over 12” away and potential formation/detachment benefits).

Webway Shard (One use only, infantry only): A shard of unstable warp-matter, this device may be used to tear a rift into the webway for the purposes of rapidly repositioning. This is less risky than it sounds… but only just. Use at the start of your movement phase. The wielder and their unit may move up to 18” this phase, ignoring all terrain. At the end phase each model in the unit must make a dangerous terrain check.

Soul Case (One use only): A tortured soul, captured and brought to the battlefield. When released, its pain rejuvenates nearby Dark Eldar and terrifies their foes. This device may be used in place of firing a weapon. All enemies within 12” must make a pinning check at -2 leadership. Until the beginning of the DE player’s next turn, the wielder and his unit have +1 to their Feel No Pain (or FNP 6+ if they didn’t have it before) and the fear and fearless special rules.

Eldanesh Industries type 4 area force field generator: made from a design ancient when humanity first left Terra, the EIT4 generates a forcefield which is then distributed to nodes within a short range, allowing a single device to protect several individuals. The bearer and his squad gain a 5++ save. (I just wanted something that predates the DE obsession with naming things after shadow, souls, and other emo crap! In the actual codex it will be the Shield of Eldanesh. It’s functionally similar to the Shimmershields wielded by Dire Avengers.)

Mind Trap* (one use only): A mind trap is a very powerful collector of warp energy, similar in design to the devices used in securing compromised webway gates. A Mind Trap is activated the first time a psyker targets the bearer or his squad with a Hex or Witchfire power. If the power is successfully manifested roll a d6. On a 2+ the power is negated, as if the squad had successfully denied the witch. If the psyker fails to manifest the power, they suffer a perils of the warp as the Mind Trap attempts to suck out their soul.

Note that the list is incomplete and I welcome ideas.

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