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 The Dark Eldar "decurion"

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Zentis
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PostSubject: The Dark Eldar "decurion"   Sat Jul 11 2015, 21:48

Just something to put us on a competitive level with the newer books. My take on what a Dark Eldar “Decurion” would be like.

Let me know if you see any errors or if you have any suggestions.

Realspace Raid

Select 1+ Core Formations
For each Core Formation, select 1-10 Auxiliary Formations and 0-1 Command Formations
Benefits:
-Any non HQ unit (that has the option to do so) may take a Raider or Venom at no cost. Upgrades for these vehicles are purchased at normal cost.
-Airborne Assault: All Raiders, Venoms and Ravagers become Flyers and gain Hover.
---When a vehicle changed to a Flyer from Airborne Assault enters hover mode, it must remain in Hover mode for the rest of the game.
---Vehicles changed to Flyers from Airborne Assault may begin the game deployed and may be deployed in either Zooming or Hover mode (if deployed in Hover mode, it must remain in Hover mode for the rest of the game).
---Vehicles changed to Flyers from Airborne Assault may not exit the airspace and must enter Hover mode on turn 3 (if they are not already in Hover mode).
-Backstabbing: Models in this formation may not make look out sir rolls or heroic interventions. Wracks, Acothysts, Grotesques, Abberations, Incubi, Klaivexes, and Drazhar are not affected by this rule.

Core Formations
Kabalite Raiding Party
1 Archon
2-4 units of Kabalite Warriors
0-3 units of Kabalite Trueborn
Benefit:
-The Archon, Sybarites and Dracons may each take one weapon upgrade at no cost.
-Units embarked in vehicles in this formation may fire as if the vehicle was stationary no matter what speed the vehicle moved at. If the vehicle moved flat out, the embarked unit may still shoot as if standing still, but they must fire snap shots.
-Units that purchase a Sybarite or Dracon gain +1 BS.

Wych Cult
1 Succubus
2-4 units of Wyches
0-3 units of Bloodbrides
Benefits:
-The Succubus, Hekatrii and Syrens may each take one weapon upgrade at no cost.
-After making the combat drug roll for your force, you my select one additional drug result. Models in this formation with combat drugs benefit from the drug result for the force AND the result you selected. (If your force includes multiple wych cults, your additional drug choice applies to all wych cult formations in your force. For example, if a force includes 3 Wych cult formations, make one roll for the force. Then pick a single additional drug. The models in all wych cult formations benefit from both drugs.)
-Units that purchase a Hekatrix or Syren gain +1 to their Dodge saves and enemy units suffer -1 to hit the unit.

Haemonculus Coven
1 Haemonculus
2-4 units of Wracks
0-3 units of Grotesques
Benefits:
-The Haemonculus, Acothysts, and Abberations may each take one weapon upgrade at no cost.
-Non-Vehicle models in this formation gain +1 Toughness and +1 to Feel No Pain rolls
-Units that purchase an Acothyst improve their poisoned weapons to wound vale by 1 (poisoned 4+ goes to 3+).
-Models in units that purchase an Abberation gain It Will Not Die.

Command Formations
Royal Court
1 Archon
1 Court of the Archon
*The Court of the Archon must consist of at least 4 models
Benefits:
-The Archon may take one weapon upgrade at no cost
-If this formation's Archon is your warlord, you may select your warlord trait from any table. You may also add or subtract one from your reserves rolls and you gain +1 on rolls to seize the initiative.
-While this formation's Archon is alive, count the turn as being one later than it is for the purposes of Power From Pain.

Queen of Knives
Lelith Hesperax
Benefits:
-All Wych units, Bloodbride units, and Succubi within 18” of Lelith gain +1 WS and gain a 5+ Invulnerable save vs shooting.

Sculptor of Torments
Urien Ratharth
Benefits:
-All Wrack units, Grotesque units, Talos units, Cronos units, and Haemonculi within 18” of Urien gain +1 STR and Zealot

Auxiliary Formations
Arena Cult
1-3 Jetbike units
0-2 Beastmaster units
Benefits:
-Models in this formation gain Shred on their splinter weapons and melee weapons.
-Reaver Jetbike units in this formation gain +4” on their assault distance and cannot be targeted by overwatch.
-Beastmaster units in this formation may assault after running.

Scourge Flight
1-4 units of Scourges
Benefit:
-Solarites may take one weapon upgrade at no cost.
-A unit in this formation that purchased a Solarite may select one of the following special rules at the beginning of each of your turns. The rule lasts until the beginning of your next turn.
---Tank Hunter
---Monster Hunter
---Relentless

Hellion Gang
1-4 units of Hellions
Benefits:
-Helliarchs in the formation may take one weapon upgrade at no cost.
-If all units in the formation purchased a Helliarch, pick one of the following special rules for the formation during each of your turns. That rule lasts until the beginning of your next turn.
--Shrouded
--Hatred
--Ranged weapons gain Ignores Cover

Incubus Temple
1-5 units of Incubi
0-1 Drazhar
Benefits:
-Plasma Grenades
-Zealot
-If the formation includes Drazhar, models in the formation gain Shred
-Drazhar and Klaivexes in this formation double their base attacks value when fighting in a challenge.

Mandrakes
1 unit of Mandrakes
Benefits:
-The unit gains Deep Strike.
-They may arrive automatically on turn 1 or 2 without scattering.
-They may assault on the turn they arrive.
-Unreliable: This Auxillary Formation does not count towards the minimum number of Auxillary formations required for each core formation. It does, however, count towards the maximum number of auxillary formations allowed for each core formation.

Engines of Pain
1 unit of Talos OR 1 unit of Cronos
Benefits:
-If your force includes a Haemonculus or Urien Rakarth, models in this formation gain Deep Strike and do not scatter if they arrive within 12” of the Haemonculus or Urien Rakarth.
-It Will Not Die
-If within 12” of a Haemonculus or Urien Rakarth, models in the formation pass It Will Not Die rolls on a 3+

Ravager Destroyer Squadron
1-5 Ravagers
Benefits:
-Name one Ravager as the lead Ravager. While within 6” of the lead Ravager, other Ravagers in the formation gain Shrouded and Tank Hunter.
-The lead Ravager’s prow heavy weapon gains Shadow Ray. When a weapon with Shadow Ray hits a model, models in this formation may ignore any Void Shields, Power Fields, Eldar Titan Holo Fields, or any other Invulnerable or Cover saves the target model has.
-You may re-designate a lead Ravager at any time, but the new lead Ravager does not gain Shadow Ray on its prow heavy weapon.

Razorwing Sickle Squadron
1-5 Razorwings
Benefits:
-Sicklewing Fields. After a model in this formation moves, select one enemy unit or vehicle it passed over. That unit or vehicle suffers d3 STR 8 AP 3 hits with no cover saves allowed.
-Dogfighters. Models in this formation gain +1 to jink rolls against shots from other Flyers or Flying Monstrous Creatures. They also reroll to hit and wound/armor penetration vs other Flyers or Flying Monstrous Creatures.
-Vector Dancer
-Make a single reserves roll for this formation. You may start rolling for it on turn 1

Voidraven Bomber Wing
2-4 Voidravens
Benefits:
-Models in this unit may select missile options at no cost.
-Secretly select one Voidraven in the formation to replace its Void Mine with a Heavy Void Bomb. The Heavy Void Bomb is STR D, AP 1, Apocalyptic Blast 10” Other Voidravens in this unit have 3 void mines instead of 1.
-Vector Dancer
-Make a single reserves roll for this formation. You may start rolling for it on turn 1.

Like I said above, let me know if you see any errors or if you have any suggestions.

If you've read this far, you can probably tell this is completely broken and insanely overpowered. But, given the current direction of 40k, maybe that's not so bad haha.


Last edited by Zentis on Tue Jul 14 2015, 09:47; edited 1 time in total
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar "decurion"   Sat Jul 11 2015, 22:02

This meta formation is insanely good. Nothing would be able to stand before us. If they made it this way, there would be much weeping and gnashing of teeth, and DE would enjoy a brief moment as "the broken army.'
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar "decurion"   Sat Jul 11 2015, 22:11

I wanted to say that it's too good. But then I had to think about Craftworld Eldar...

I would change the minimum number of several auxiliaries to one.

The poison to 3+ is a bit too good..
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kuzzuk
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar "decurion"   Sat Jul 11 2015, 22:37

Wow I hope you write the next codex! Love the bonus to transports as fliers for the first few turns, fluffy but effective! In fact I love all of the rules, I don't think there over powered because;
They don't buff our defence much
And they add teeth to units when taken in 'fluffy' formations.

Only thing ide change is the bonuses for leaders. Ide personally like to see a rule that stops de making look out sir for unit leaders, exept incubi, all dark eldar look after number one! They could LoS for INDEPENDENT characters (like archon) how better to get a promotion after visitig the clone vats!
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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar "decurion"   Sun Jul 12 2015, 04:26

I dig it. Funny thing is the initial reaction is over powered until it snaps that much of that exists in other armies only better at times. Give grots the option to replace liquifiers with d scythes add a LoW (vect) and it's perfect.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar "decurion"   Sun Jul 12 2015, 09:10

Thanks for the feedback guys!
Jimsolo: Yeah, I started writing this as a joke about how broken the newer formations are. But as I was working through it, it kind of changed from a joke to something semi-realistic. I would say (at least on paper) this seems close to, or maybe a bit above the gladius/lions blade formations.

CptMetal: I could see changing the ravagers and razorwings to be 1-5, but a 1 minimum would make the secrecy of the heavy void bomb on the voidravens impossible. As for the poison, yeah you're probably right. In my head, warriors=venom squads. I hadn't considered a larger squad in a raider with splinter racks. What would you suggest as an alternative to that benefit?

Kuzzuk: Thanks for the kind words Smile Interesting thought on the leader bonuses. I also like the idea of DE not having look out sir (other than incubi). Maybe I could just rework it so the bonuses still come with the Sgt but aren't dependant on the Sgt being alive. Not sure how I'd go about removing look our sir from Sgt upgrades without it being a pure negative bonus (though that may not be such a bad thing for this formation). I wanted to add some motivation to run Sgt upgrades. They can add a lot of character to a unit for narrative players and provide great opportunities for the modeling/ painting aspect if the hobby.

Brom: I've been considering putting together a fan-dex or at least an edit to the current book. If I end up doing that, this formation, Vect, and all the other old characters will be included. Not to come off rude or anything, but why do you think grots should get d-scythes? How would you back it up with the fluff? Again, not intending to be rude, but I'm legitimately curious.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar "decurion"   Sun Jul 12 2015, 09:41

I'd suggest something like giving them all shrouded on turn one or automatically night fighting. Something like that.

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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar "decurion"   Sun Jul 12 2015, 11:05

Really enjoyed reading this. I did have several reflexive reactions that some of the rules were too good or "OP", but then I remembered the actual rules that Necrons, CWE, Mechanicus/Skiitari, and Space Marines got and realized that nothing you proposed is more powerful than what those armies already have. Sadly, I think GW will probably have gone away from the Decurion-style madness by the time they update DE again.
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DEfan
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar "decurion"   Sun Jul 12 2015, 11:09

Good work! I feel that some of these changes are quite justified, actually. I've just finished my 3rd tournament of the past year and have some interesting comparisons to make based on my experience running pure DE.
In our grand October tournament of 2014, the points limit was 1750 and I finished in the bottom third of the field. In May the point limit was 1000 points. I kicked butt and got 4th on battle points. In this weekends tournament we played at 1500 points. I finished in the bottom 3rd of the field again. What is the key difference? Basically DE work when we successfully roll 3+ to hit and 4+ to wound/glance etc. The very dynamic of the army is 50/50 right there; 4 wounds is reasonable output from a Venom for example.

Dark Eldar seemed to work best at low points when all the other blessed armies can afford fewer toys for their awesome formations and have limited unit redundancy. When the game escalates to higher point values, Dark Eldar fair less well and several units now exist that are perfect for making us redundant units.
At 1500+ all the impenetrable double layer/super alpha strike tricks in my meta came into play.  Armies like Necrons, which have become markedley more popular, shrug off half our shots then further dilute damage through improved feel no pain special rules , pseudo eternal-warrior or "it will not die," etc. I can't beat an army if I am removing one 14-20 point point model at the same time I lose 65+ point chunks! So many other armies get twin-linked this-that, ignore cover/jink/fear or reach the other side of a table with extreme weapon range that repositioning is extremely difficult or futile.

Maelstrom missions at our tournaments have somewhat reduced the static gunline deployment game, however the resilience of other armies is now the best I have ever encountered while our own is unfortunately lagging a step behind and the ease of removing our stuff has felt violating.

If 50% of my stuff hurts, but my opponent shrugs off half of that, then halves the damage received again, I am actually only effective 1/4 of the time. 25%! I can do maths, yay me! The 1/4 effectiveness we get REALLY needs to count!! I would go so far as to suggest that every lance weapon needs to be rightfully feared.
Darklight special rule:- all darklight weapons gain the special rule tank hunter/ re-roll to wound.
Now the weapon matches the fluff. Catastrophic damage when exposed to a target.

Loved the formation with the flyer type rules: Airborne Assault. That sounds like our apoc stormsurge formation. That needs to be regular 40K legal! How about a further addition-
Kabalite Raiding Party- Dark Eldar are masters of hit and run warfare at extreme speed. They do not suffer from snap shot penalties due to jinking. Furthermore, Kabalites can shoot at full ballistic skill when their vehicle moves 12" and can snap-shoot following a turbo-boost.
Lethal dose: Dark eldar ranged poison weapons deny fnp/re-animation types of saves. You've already had your god damn save busted. Our poison hurts way worse than other races!

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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar "decurion"   Sun Jul 12 2015, 19:35

Quote :
Brom: I've been considering putting together a fan-dex or at least an edit to the current book. If I end up doing that, this formation, Vect, and all the other old characters will be included. Not to come off rude or anything, but why do you think grots should get d-scythes? How would you back it up with the fluff? Again, not intending to be rude, but I'm legitimately curious.
Well I was only half serious. More taking a shot at eldar. Thing is liquifiers could be s6 ap1 and they still wouldn't feel op'd anymore. Scatbikes nearly double the damage output of venoms while seriously threatening av12 or less. Cover ignoring tomb blades, the proliferation of grav including on relentless platforms with t1 strike potential etc.
The fluff is it's a liquifier. The fluff didn't change just the stats get brought in line. Str D is too good but anything less is IMO fine.

On your fandex I would love to see our hq's brought back to combat relevance again. combine huskblade + agonizer at ap2. 12"movement options, foc alteration for hellions, among other things like for vects sake no more Ld 3 on non fearless units. Gretchin were not.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar "decurion"   Sun Jul 12 2015, 20:32

At first reading this I thought some of these were a little too strong, but just like everyone else has already stated, I thought about the Eldar lists I'm running (and the fact you can't ever take everything you'd want), I have to say that this is a very good effort and honestly looks really fun to play. This is basically what all the codices after the Necrons have been - no unit seems useless, all units seem powerful and you want to try out all of them. Some, of course, shine brighter than others. For example, deepstriking Taloi with 5+ FnP AND IWND on 3+ that come along with a Haemonculus with WWP that I use as a Wraithguard D-Scythe delivery platform (or three!)? I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of that!

But with the D-spam, uncatchable, nigh-unkillable and unbreakable Warp Spider shrines, free transports for the Marines and the sheer stubborness of the Necrons, anything goes. Dark Eldar would only benefit from such formations that emphasize their style of fighting dirty.

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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar "decurion"   Mon Jul 13 2015, 00:00

Have any of you actually tried playing our army? This is rediculously overpowered!

Quote :
1500 pts
kabalite Raiding Party 1
Archon w. Blaster, in Venom w. Splinter Cannon
6 x 5 Kabalite Warriors w. Blaster, in Venom w. Splinter Cannon
Auxillary 1: 3 Mandrakes
kabalite Raiding Party 2
Archon w. Blaster, in Venom w. Splinter Cannon
6 x 5 Kabalite Warriors w. Blaster, in Venom w. Splinter Cannon
Auxillary 2: 3 Mandrakes
kabalite Raiding Party 3
Archon w. Blaster, in Venom w. Splinter Cannon
6 x 5 Kabalite Warriors w. Blaster, in Venom w. Splinter Cannon
Auxillary 3: 3 Mandrakes
The above list sports 252 range 36" airborne poison shots, 144 additional poison shots at range 12" and 21 Blasters. EACH ROUND!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar "decurion"   Mon Jul 13 2015, 08:50

Sigmaril wrote:
Have any of you actually tried playing our army? This is rediculously overpowered!

Quote :
1500 pts
kabalite Raiding Party 1
Archon w. Blaster, in Venom w. Splinter Cannon
6 x 5 Kabalite Warriors w. Blaster, in Venom w. Splinter Cannon
Auxillary 1: 3 Mandrakes
kabalite Raiding Party 2
Archon w. Blaster, in Venom w. Splinter Cannon
6 x 5 Kabalite Warriors w. Blaster, in Venom w. Splinter Cannon
Auxillary 2: 3 Mandrakes
kabalite Raiding Party 3
Archon w. Blaster, in Venom w. Splinter Cannon
6 x 5 Kabalite Warriors w. Blaster, in Venom w. Splinter Cannon
Auxillary 3: 3 Mandrakes
The above list sports 252 range 36" airborne poison shots, 144 additional poison shots at range 12" and 21 Blasters. EACH ROUND!!!!

I agree, that list is really crazy lol, but I feel like this Gladius list would do fine against that:
1500
Chapter Tactics: Iron Hands
Battle Demi Company
-Chaplain w/combimelta
-3 Tac Squads with meltaguns and free Razorbacks
-Assault Squad with 2 flamers and free Razorback
-Devastator Squad with 4 Multimeltas and free Razorback
Battle Demi Company
-Captain
-3 Tac Squads with meltaguns and free Razorbacks
-Assault Squad with 2 flamers and free Rzorback
-Devastator Squad with 4 Multimeltas and free Razorback
Anti-Air Defense Force
-1 Hunter
-2 Stalkers
Anti-Air Defense Force
-1 Hunter
-2 Stalkers

That's 10 Razorbacks, 4 Stalkers and 2 Hunters with It Will Not Die. Plus 52 marines (either hiding in a metal box, or hiding somewhere in the parking lot where the venoms cant see) with FNP(6+) and a mixture of Melta and Flame weapons. All of that has 2 turns of rerolling 1's to hit on shooting (tactical, then devastator doctrine).

I'm not saying it would be an easy fight for the marines. Actually, it would probably still be an uphill battle. I suppose I could've put a limit of 2 on each core choice, but then you could just take multiple Realspace Raid detachments.

The other thing to consider is that all those venoms are flyers until turn 3 or until you hover them. That means they come with all the inconveniences of maneuvering flyers without vector dancer. Turn 1 should be fine, but being able to shoot at everything you want on turn 2 will be difficult while zooming if your opponent moves toward you. And if any venoms die while zooming, the occupants probably all die as well.

You're absolutely correct that this formation is completely broken and ridiculously overpowered. But when the Decurion, Gladius and Lion's Blade exist, it doesn't seem so bad in comparison.

I'll see if I can come up with something to fix the problem of spamming Kabalite Raiding parties though. You're right, it does seem a bit too good.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar "decurion"   Mon Jul 13 2015, 09:17

All of the "NO COST" part are too much. Far too much.

The Raiding Party being able to take Raiders and Venoms for free?! Considering costs, 5 basic Warriors are cheaper than a Venom, so offering the Venom for completely free is far too unbalanced.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar "decurion"   Mon Jul 13 2015, 10:07

I think most marine players locally will take drop pods to wreck an army first turn. Does Gladius allow a choice of dedicated transport? If so, then the above list will smart like crazy.

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Zentis
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar "decurion"   Tue Jul 14 2015, 09:09

DEfan wrote:
I think most marine players locally will take drop pods to wreck an army first turn. Does Gladius allow a choice of dedicated transport? If so, then the above list will smart like crazy.

Yes, I'm almost certain its a choice of a rhino, razor, or pod. So if someone normally runs a Gladius list with all pods, they can switch them out for stock razorbacks for no extra cost.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar "decurion"   Tue Jul 14 2015, 09:48

Also, just edited the OP
Changes:
-HQ’s no longer get free transports.
-Changed the poison bonus benefit on the Kabalite Raiding Party.
-All Core formation’s primary unit (Kabalite warriors, Wyches, Wracks) changed to 2-4 rather than 2-6 (to cut down on spammability).
-Changed all bonuses that required a leader to be alive to simply requiring the purchase of the leader in the list.
-Changed the hellion gang leader rule so that it requires the purchase of a helliarch for all units in the formation, but the special rules are not dependent on the helliarchs being alive. Also gave helliarchs a free weapon upgrade.
-Added a rule to Mandrakes formation that says they do not count towards the minimum number of auxiliary formations required for each core formation. (to cut down on spammability of core formations)
-Reduced the minimum model count on the Ravager and Razorwings formations to 1.
-Added a rule called “Backstabbing” to the Realspace Raid Formation.
-Talos and cronos now benefit from Urien’s +1 Str and Zealot aura.
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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar "decurion"   Wed Jul 15 2015, 13:09

Pretty solid, but to really line up with the Necron/Eldar Decurions (haven't seen the SM one) it needs the core formations to have some kind of 'tax' unit. Wink

Say, 1-3 Mandrakes in the Haemy one, 1-3 Beastmasters in the Wych Cult, and 1-3 Scourges in the Kabalite?

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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar "decurion"   Wed Jul 15 2015, 13:20

Suggest that the Court of the Archon be exempt from the Backstabbing rule. Bodyguards and all that.

Suggest that on the turn a unit comes in from deep strike their weapons have pinning.

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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar "decurion"   Wed Jul 15 2015, 19:02

I think a +1 to fnp and +1 to toughness for coven would make them to good and iwnd to grots would defeat the purpose of pfp. Iwnd on a 4+ for talos and cronos sounds delicious.
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