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 Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks

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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Tue Jun 30 2015, 09:14



500 points of free transports in 1,500pts games? Grav weaponry everywhere? What's an Archon to do? We dive into the new Space Marine codex and offer strategies, advice, tactics, and downright emotional support for Dark Eldar players facing the new hotness from GW. Updates and a big thanks for our listeners that so generously donated to the fundraising drive are given props for making the even better! We are joined by Alex, aka Cavalier AVA in the last episode before Brian takes his two month baby break.

Episode 13 Direct Download

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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Tue Jun 30 2015, 12:00

Not done yet, but Death Jesters do actually have precision shots, so you don't even have to bring any rangers Smile! Fun to hear JimSolo's stuff discussed by a '3rd party' so to speak.
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Tue Jun 30 2015, 13:29

My thread got mentioned on the podcast!

This is the proudest moment of my life. *Tear comes to eye*
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Tue Jun 30 2015, 13:32

I'm just known as the guy who left his army on a bus...

But great episode! I think Cav has slotted in with you two perfectly and every episode has me laughing.

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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Tue Jun 30 2015, 13:38

How to screw over a 'Nid player as space marines 101:

Take Sternguard Veterans.
Give them Combi-grav weapons.

Monstrous creatures with good armour? No problem, break out the grav. Light infantry? Helfire rounds. Warriors? Kraken rounds.

There's literally nothing with a toughness value that can take them on outside of a few daemon superheavies.
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Tue Jun 30 2015, 21:38

1. Good episode. ESE, I could hear the disappointment in your voice when you read my message

2. Missed that any IC on a bike picked up the mounted assault rule. So tech marine on a bike makes bikes troops. That unlocks a lot more options for the marines.

3. (Specifically for Brian) Centurion star gets better when they're in a Stormraven with a chapter master and 2 techmarines. It's 12 wounds with a 2+ save and majority toughness 5. And to deepstrike them in makes them a precision tools. But it gets outrageous when you ally in Draigo for auto Gate of Infinity. So what you assaulted them, next turn they'll just bounce out. But they're still not the be all end all of the 40k world, especially with more D on the table.

4. Audio track at the beginning was very loud and made it hard to hear your intro.

5. Seriously awesome episode and I'm excited to start my Dark Eldar soon. I even got my first model, a Talos. Too bad the Corpse Thief Claw sucks now.
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Wed Jul 01 2015, 05:34

@number9dream wrote:
Not done yet, but Death Jesters do actually have precision shots, so you don't even have to bring any rangers Smile! Fun to hear JimSolo's stuff discussed by a '3rd party' so to speak.

I thought so! It's so hard to keep the flow of conversation when you stop and look things up, I just defer to everyone else when I'm actually right...because it happens so infrequently Razz

@Dragontree wrote:
I'm just known as the guy who left his army on a bus...

But great episode! I think Cav has slotted in with you two perfectly and every episode has me laughing.

Maybe you'll graduate to "The guy formerly known as the guy that left his army on a bus" once you've been a guest on the show Twisted Evil
And agreed-Cav is always a great third chair. Hopefully you guys will want me back after I get back from paternity leave!

@FuelDrop wrote:
My thread got mentioned on the podcast!

This is the proudest moment of my life. *Tear comes to eye*

On a serious note, that is one of the best listener submitted ideas for a show yet! Might be appropriate for our one year anniversary extravaganza Twisted Evil

@Gigantor wrote:


4. Audio track at the beginning was very loud and made it hard to hear your intro.
Not sure what that's about, might have been a streaming issue from Libsyn. I've heard complaints from other episodes that didn't show up when I up or downloaded the episode to my iPad. I'll look into it.

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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Wed Jul 01 2015, 12:11

Thanks for the kind words guys. Glad you all have enjoyed the episode!

@Dragontree- Thanks man I really appreciate it! These are contentious topics and I'm glad I can make you laugh... I know ESE and Thor have me cracking up the whole time.  

@number9dream- Can't believe I didn't know the DJ had precision shot, thats actually really nasty. Thanks for the info!

@Fueldrop- Wish I had thought of that while I was stammering through why I hate the spam-ability of grav-weapons! Perfectly put.

@Gigantor- Hey Gigantor nice to see you on the Dark City! Great points about the Cent-Star particularly with Draigo thats where the horror began!

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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Wed Jul 01 2015, 13:25



Very Happy

Another good one chaps!
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Wed Jul 01 2015, 14:38

@Squidmaster wrote:


Very Happy

Another good one chaps!

YES!

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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Wed Jul 01 2015, 15:58

@Evil Space Elves wrote:
@Squidmaster wrote:


Very Happy

Another good one chaps!

YES!

I can just watch that looping forever.........
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Thu Jul 02 2015, 00:22

@Squidmaster wrote:

I can just watch that looping forever.........

Don't say stuff like that! around here we're likely to put it to the test. For Science!
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Thu Jul 02 2015, 06:06

Just got done listening to the episode, i have to say I LOVE the interplay between the three of you. Adam needs to be a regular. Ubiquitous.....omg thank you. I swear Eldar faction dudes are generally a bit smarter than the other chumps.

So I am part of the League that The French Overlord plays at. He is a great guy and will help you fix your lists, and you can imagine the level of play here. I am one of the few people that didnt start off with 40k because of Space Marines, nope, the Regiments of Renown Harlequins and the two part white dwarf space clowns are what sold me. You better believe that I have brought these guys back in. My list is somewhat akin to what he ran at Adeptacon. Basically its a Cast of Players kitted out with the mask and caresses joined by an archon pimping a WWP and the Armor of Misery. I take that to 11 and add in two farseers and a unit of Shadow Specters that have an exarch with the Shadow of death special rule. It can get silly...oh and a unit of five grots in a Tantalus.

The last thing that I wanted to touch on is some of the SM stuff you missed and you better believe you will see at tournaments. The most abusive is the possibility of a 1+ FNP Chapter Master. This guy will be riding around with a command squad full of storm shields and grav weapons. In the current meta you NEED a WWP scythe bomb. Case in point, my son runs one with a 3+ sometimes 2+ and that dude tanked my entire QUinstar's attacks. Its 11 players with caresses a master with the Storied sword along with all the psychers attacks. I mean everything. I think grots can get lucky and ID him out but its rediculous. I did hit and run off of them and dump two imperial knights with the star, I just coundnt dump that guy and he is the one people are talking about.

i really appreciate the hard work you guys do to put out the podcast, its great.
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Thu Jul 02 2015, 23:48

Technical issue: I also had a problem with the intro song playing over the talking.

1.  Mentioned in three different parts of the show?  Damn, I feel special!
2.  Speaking of, which model would Thor like to paint the most?  A 3rd ed metal Talos, a 3rd ed warrior converted into an 'alas poor Yorick' pose, or Kruellagh the Vile?
3.  I had seriously thought about paying fifty or seventy-five bucks to have you guys discuss the Freakshow thing, but I ended up deciding that if the Freakshow idea was worth talking about on Splintermind, then you guys would decide that.  (And it seemed kind of narcissistic to suggest talking about my own article series as part of the show...)
4.  Couple of quick things on that front, though.  First: priests don't really protect IG blobs from Freakshows.  The priest is the only model with Fearless, which will keep the rest of the models from running, but does nothing to protect them from Soulfright weapons, (which can still allocate their wounds to UNITS under the effects of Fearless, just not the actual MODELS with the Fearless rule--meaning the other Guard would be fair game) Laugh of Sorrows, Psychic Shriek, or Dominate.

Second (really more of the same): Fearless and ATSKNF armies are still pretty vulnerable to Freakshows. The psychic powers are all still in play (with the exception really of Terrify against Fearless armies, although the -1 will still apply), and with the exception of Fear (not that huge a deal anyhow) and Death is Not Enough!, most of the Freakshow abilities still work on Fearless/ATSKNF armies.

I cannot TELL you how stoked I was to hear this talked about! Very Happy The fact that other people consider it worthwhile enough to run is immensely gratifying to me.

Oddly, I actually think that Covens-centric Freakshows (with Eldar/Harlequin support) have very little to fear from the Skyhammer. Harlequins and Covens just laugh uproariously at Grav weapons; and I think any Alpha Strike is going to be hard-pressed to fully wipe a Grotesquerie off the table.

Every codex that comes out has made me more and more sure that the Freakshow is the way to take my army. (That doesn't sound narcissistic at all...) But with the more heavy focus on infantry based armies, larger formations, and bigger nasties (like gargantuan creatures), the Freakshow gets stronger as the meta evolves.

In any event, thanks so much for the shout out! I can't wait to hear the BAO coverage.
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Fri Jul 03 2015, 14:46

@Hannibal.Lictor wrote:
The most abusive is the possibility of a 1+ FNP Chapter Master. This guy will be riding around with a command squad full of storm shields and grav weapons.
I don't think a SM Death Star like that is actually the biggest issue we can face with the codex, though will agree it would be tough to put down.

I'm also not smart enough to see how to get him a 1+ FNP. I can see multiple ways to get him FNP, and I can see the mildly insulting because they keep nerfing ours 2+ invulnerable Ghaz effect he can get - how does he get the 1+ FNP?

@Jimsolo wrote:
Technical issue: I also had a problem with the intro song playing over the talking.
I agree, this problem exists. I blame the editor Wink
Really, since he opted not to use the pre-built intro the only issue is that he didn't fade out the song once the talking started. Meh, all you really miss is some bad jokes, so I think it works out.

@Jimsolo wrote:
2. Speaking of, which model would Thor like to paint the most? A 3rd ed metal Talos, a 3rd ed warrior converted into an 'alas poor Yorick' pose, or Kruellagh the Vile?
I am good with any - I've painted a Talos and a Warrior before, I've never painted a Kruellagh (I will paint her in the appropriate way, not the skintastic way).

@Jimsolo wrote:
4. Couple of quick things on that front, though. First: priests don't really protect IG blobs from Freakshows.
I think they do, depending on the purpose of the blob.

@Jimsolo wrote:
The priest is the only model with Fearless, which will keep the rest of the models from running, but does nothing to protect them from Soulfright weapons, (which can still allocate their wounds to UNITS under the effects of Fearless, just not the actual MODELS with the Fearless rule--meaning the other Guard would be fair game) Laugh of Sorrows, Psychic Shriek, or Dominate.
I don't see any issue for them from Dominate, or, particularly, Shriek (due to the range). I'll agree that the effects that can tag wounds onto the blob are doing things, and doing viable things, but I don't think it defeats the purpose of a Conscript Blob, and if it's not a Conscript Blob they can still have a good enough leadership off other effects to weaken the issues they're taking off the other powers. I noted that most Blobs actually tended to have the weakness just from Grots being Grots though.

@Jimsolo wrote:
Oddly, I actually think that Covens-centric Freakshows (with Eldar/Harlequin support) have very little to fear from the Skyhammer. Harlequins and Covens just laugh uproariously at Grav weapons; and I think any Alpha Strike is going to be hard-pressed to fully wipe a Grotesquerie off the table.
I did note the Grotesquerie as the most survivable and best Freakshow coven option. I don't think Freakshow needs to try null deployment, so it's not as big of a thing off alpha strike. I do think Skyhammer could do some serious work on them, but will agree a table would require more than just that. That said, I could easily see an alpha strike based SM force capable of wiping a Grotesqueirie.

@Jimsolo wrote:
But with the more heavy focus on infantry based armies, larger formations, and bigger nasties (like gargantuan creatures), the Freakshow gets stronger as the meta evolves.
If you are seeing a lot of infantry based armies I absolutely agree with you, I wish my meta was going that way Very Happy

I will agree that DE as allies *is* the competitive way to go with the army almost regardless of local meta, and assuredly the Freakshow is great against infantry builds, I'm not thinking I've seen a better DE thematic build for that purpose, yours would be the best.

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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Fri Jul 03 2015, 16:24

Ok Thor. Let me see if I can remember all the stuff required to make te 1+ FNP: iron hands CT, gorgon chain, endurance an apothecary. Granted most of the time he will be a 2/3 + but even that is annoying as all can get out.
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Fri Jul 03 2015, 16:43

Warpflame can always contribute too.
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Fri Jul 03 2015, 17:53

@Hannibal.Lictor wrote:
Ok Thor. Let me see if I can remember all the stuff required to make te 1+ FNP: iron hands CT, gorgon chain, endurance an apothecary. Granted most of the time he will be a 2/3 + but even that is annoying as all can get out.
Ah, Gorgon Chain, okay. That's the one I'd forgotten about.

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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Fri Jul 03 2015, 17:54

Holy crap, I listened to the episode on my drive....I have no idea why that intro track was at the beginning! We have a set one with an intro that I lined up and a closing track that I faded out. I'll fix it (now that the damage is done!) I might have uploaded the wrong version.

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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Fri Jul 03 2015, 19:23

Sure buddy, sure. That's what they all say.
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Sat Jul 04 2015, 01:35

Another fun listen. As always, I look forward to the next one.
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Sat Jul 04 2015, 16:26

Great episode guys. I really liked the group discussion between the three of you and the fact that this episode focused primarily on how the new SM codex might fare against the DE codex and what DE players might do to counter the freebies being handed out to everybody it seems but us (yes, I'm bitter).

One minor quibble is that I actually think DE have some capable assault units. Grots, as I hope everyone knows by now, are awesome as a tarpit with teeth in that they are very capable of tying up and grinding down even premiere assault units over the course of several turns. I also think Reavers are great against the right targets. They are not quite as point and click as Grots are, but they usually do what I need them to do. Talos and Incubi are more situational and require more delicacy but they do tend to kill whatever they get close to. Obviously, this is very meta dependent, but I do feel like DE have some under-appreciated assault units that make our army fun and rewarding to play.
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Sat Jul 04 2015, 18:47

Reavers are fantastic. These guys have won many games for me.
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Sat Jul 04 2015, 18:56

I happily agree that Grots (and Succubi) are good assault units.
I will accept that Reavers are as well, though admit they are not my bag.
Talosi are also good assault units, but suffer in the current meta a great deal in my opinion.
You're losing me with the claim of Incubi being good though.

That also leaves you admitting that Wracks, Beasts, Hellions, Archons, and Wyches (and maybe Mandrakes) which are all seemingly assault units are not good assaulters.

Giving us 2-4 good-ish assault units out of 10-11.
We used to have a far better ratio than that.

It also showcases how GW honestly seems to think we're an assault army while failing to grasp what makes a good assault unit.

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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 13: And They Shall Know No Points Costs...for free Razorbacks   Sat Jul 04 2015, 22:03

autarch with the banshee mask CAN make incubi decent but still. What makes reavers good is that they harass MEQ and back field well. They are also easy to multicharge with. It's all about positioning te caltrops., at least that's what I am doing with them. I also love that so much meta is going grav.
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