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 Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Mon Jun 29 2015, 13:24

Okay. Scourges.

Haywire Blasters are awesome for killing vehicles. As in, nigh-on peerless. Heat Lances are less good at killing vehicles, but on the flip side they're far better for general purposes. Which is generally favored among veteran Archons?
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Mon Jun 29 2015, 15:03

Due to model restrictions, weapons salvaged from talos, I own a scourges squad with heat lances and one with Haywire Blaster. I think both are great. Actually, for Blaster would be a good idea too. Combined with true born Blaster squads...

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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Mon Jun 29 2015, 22:02

Depends on your meta and the rest of your army. If you face a lot of Flamer units than getting in close with the Heat Lance may not be such a great idea. I personally prefer to sit back a bit and snipe tanks so for that reason it's Haywire Blasters.

Also, in terms of "versatility" I'd prefer a S8 shot over a S6 shot when shooting at heavy infantry

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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Mon Jun 29 2015, 22:30

I like me some heat Lances but I know one guy who runs them with dark Lances. True enough they snap shoot but it adds four 36 inch range Lances with a 48 inch threat bubbles.
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Mon Jun 29 2015, 22:45

3 units of HayScourges for me. Just took a while to get 12 barrels from various sources ....
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Marrath
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Mon Jun 29 2015, 23:09

My small experience: When i deep strike my Heat Lances close to transports to get the Melter effect and destroy them, whatever comes out kills my Scourges.

So, maybe Haywire Blasters/Dark Lances vs transports (better range/hopefully reducing retribution of disembarkees) and deep striking Heat Lances VS other vehicles/walkers?
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Mon Jun 29 2015, 23:28

I have a unit of each. I run both in equal measure. I prefer haywire for starting on the field, and lances for DS.
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Tue Jun 30 2015, 01:55

@Hellstrom wrote:
3 units of HayScourges for me.  Just took a while to get 12 barrels from various sources ....

What do you do if you face a no mech list?

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nexs
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Tue Jun 30 2015, 02:13

I find that heat lances are good with a WWP. You can delete any tank in one drop (provided you get average rolls)
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Tue Jun 30 2015, 03:04

@1++ wrote:
@Hellstrom wrote:
3 units of HayScourges for me.  Just took a while to get 12 barrels from various sources ....

What do you do if you face a no mech list?

Hope they have some 4+ sv units to mop up?
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Tue Jun 30 2015, 03:21

@Jimsolo wrote:
@1++ wrote:
@Hellstrom wrote:
3 units of HayScourges for me.  Just took a while to get 12 barrels from various sources ....

What do you do if you face a no mech list?

Hope they have some 4+ sv units to mop up?
Given that most completely non-mech lists are likely to be either 'nids or Daemons, you've got a 50/50 chance.
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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Tue Jun 30 2015, 03:31

@nexs wrote:
I find that heat lances are good with a WWP. You can delete any tank in one drop (provided you get average rolls)
If you are WWPing them then a blast pistol isn't a bad idea!
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Tue Jun 30 2015, 09:39

@1++ wrote:
@Hellstrom wrote:
3 units of HayScourges for me.  Just took a while to get 12 barrels from various sources ....

What do you do if you face a no mech list?

They still shoot 7 shoots. Not completely terrible. A source of AP4 is unique in our army and they are quite fast too, so good as distraction, scoring and if they are a throw away squad, can be used to charge if there is nothing else to do. Might hold up a unit for a turn before dieing.

The problem I have, is if I don't take them, the rest of our AT is terrible. I play against a lot of AV12 and upwards. Lances are just too unreliable against them. You need sooo many to make them work. Haywire just works so much better.
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Tue Jun 30 2015, 09:42

The only thing that's really been bugging me lately is that the new Swooping Hawks (Eldar) are basically the same, but cheaper, longer ranged and have nearly twice as many haywire attacks (close combat included). Add the fact you can take them in a formation to make them all BS5 for no extra points ..... makes me feel sad.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Tue Jun 30 2015, 11:55

I've tried both kinds (though the Heat Lance variety used to have a WWP/Blaster Archon with them for accurate deep strikes).

My conclusion is that it doesn't matter either way because my scourges are incapable of hitting the broad side of a Land Raider from 5 feet away.
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Tue Jun 30 2015, 12:10

@Hellstrom wrote:
The only thing that's really been bugging me lately is that the new Swooping Hawks (Eldar) are basically the same, but cheaper, longer ranged and have nearly twice as many haywire attacks (close combat included).  Add the fact you can take them in a formation to make them all BS5 for no extra points ..... makes me feel sad.

Hey, you forgot the better speed, moving after shooting, the AA attacks in the movement phase, the precision deep strikes, and the fact they don't need to spend an extra 10 points per model on top of the baseline to be able to actually do this.

On the flip side, we get a 6++. Totally balanced.
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Tue Jun 30 2015, 20:06

I like to have at least 1 squad of blaster scourge in addition to a haywire squad. I deploy them on the field and they act both as an anti-tank and an anti heavy infantry. They are a little less mobile than a blasterborn venom, but are rarely considered a primary target by my ennemy. I don't use them too greedily at first and they don't deepstrike, which generally cause a "OMFG, I must kill that unit!".
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Tue Jun 30 2015, 23:41

Which can be done with 5 bolters. Not the best 120 point distraction unit I wouldn't have thought. Even a single Talos would be better.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Wed Jul 01 2015, 02:47

I would suggest using bigger squads?

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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Wed Jul 08 2015, 20:55

Melta for me. Too many jinking platforms around so I prefer the ap1 plus they double against infantry better than haywire.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Thu Jul 09 2015, 17:51

I don't usually run mixed squads, but I will for trueborn hunting parties(3blaster2SCinVenom), and Scourge units with 2 heat lances 2 haywire blasters and a solarite with blast pistol and power lance(more for the LD then the pistol). So far the scourge unit has been really good at killing vehicles that wind up in my backfield, things like a deepstriking Murderfang and every drop pod ever regardless of whats inside.

I find that the range difference is small enough that when I have my haywires just inside 24" the front end of my unit is at or just barely outside 18" so I aim for 20" so I can shoot with all 4.
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Xm0shcryptX
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Wed Feb 03 2016, 22:02

Haywire scourge for me, just my flavor. Heat lances are good but then you are pretty much forced a wwp tax in order to guarantee effectiveness before death. I have more flexibility with starting in cover or even ds even if it's off I'm always in range. Quite fun to watch a land raider die in one volley to 4 glances lol
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Wed Feb 03 2016, 23:19

I usually only run 1x 5 scourge (4HWB) but never found them that effective and have subsequently dropped them from my lists (swapped out for a RWJF). Curious to see how 2 squads run as opposed to the single (they do seem to get target priority and shot pretty quick.) but in doing so i would have to run a RSR detachment as i put my 2 units of 6 reavers (with CC) as a more important addition to my army.

does anyone find that 1 unit of scourges is enough or do you NEED 2?

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Scrz
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Thu Feb 04 2016, 10:25

@Ispa wrote:
does anyone find that 1 unit of scourges is enough or do you NEED 2?
That would depend on how big the game is. For 1500 and below I get by with one squad.
7 guys: 4 haywires and 3 redshirts to prevent the squad from beeing depleted by moderate small arms fire. If they run out of armored targets without dying, I send them to hunt objective campers or use them to assault squads hiding in terrain.
Anyway, I think I have had them in melta range once. So I would not recommend anythin other than HWB on them.
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Blaster vs Heat Lance   Thu Feb 04 2016, 22:25

@amorrowlyday wrote:
Scourge units with 2 heat lances 2 haywire blasters and a solarite with blast pistol and power lance(more for the LD then the pistol).


I can't believe how many points you're putting into 5 T3 models. That extra 40 points 'for the leadership' affords you an entire extra Kabalite Warriors unit.

@amorrowlyday wrote:
So far the scourge unit has been really good at killing vehicles that wind up in my backfield, things like a deepstriking Murderfang and every drop pod ever regardless of whats inside.


They might be good against these targets, but I'm not convinced they kill those enemy units so substantially better 'normal' loadouts that it justifies such a big price hike.

No matter what guns you give them, AP4 of any kind will still melt them instantly. Even bolters chew through them easily enough.

That's why I think they're better used as a highly specialised unit, with one set of matching weapons, so that I know what I can expect of them and what ranges to work with to get the most before they kick the bucket.

If you take fire, and you will, either:
- The Solarite takes hits and likely dies. You're back to LD8, and he has costed you 56 POINTS! (the same price as a venom) by himself.

- His squad takes the hits, or you pass Look Out Sirs, and the Solarite survives. You retain LD9, but you lose the models holding the special weapons that were the reason you wanted the squad in the first place.

I think a Solarite is better served in a bigger flock of Scourges, say 8-10, so that there's more ablative wounds to get through before they hurt your special weaponry or your Solarite himself. Even then, this is pricy as hell so I'd keep him barebones, or sneak in a venom blade (one of the the ONLY places in the entire list we still get them)

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