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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: More Supplements?   Sun Jun 28 2015, 08:58

So I've been thinking. Since it's generally agreed that the Covens supplement was a good thing...

Why not have two more? Specifically:
Kabal supplement.
Wych Cult supplement.

Think about it. The Dark Eldar have always been an army composed of three allied factions: The Covens, The Kabals, and The Wych Cults.

(Actually, there are other factions but these are the big ones)

Since each of these factions should play very differently from the others, why not give each of them a different book focusing on them? After all, there's no assurance that our codex will be updated this edition and it does badly need a bit of love. This way Games Workshop can do a "Stealth Update" without having to admit they kinda screwed up in the first place. Plus, instead of having Dark Eldar players buy 1 codex they get to bill us for several (Which is unfortunately exactly their style).

Thoughts?
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Sun Jun 28 2015, 09:36

Quote :
This way Games Workshop can do a "Stealth Update" without having to admit they kinda screwed up in the first place.

THere was never need to admit or not anything on part of GW. Codexes have stood with mistakes and bad designs for years, and nothing happened to them.

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Sun Jun 28 2015, 10:21

The first issue would be that Kabals wouldn;t get a supplement. Kabals are supposed to be the ground level basic which the Codex represents. As the Space Marine Codex represents Ultramarines, so does the Dark Eldar Codex represent the Kabals.
I can see a Wych supplement being a good idea, but only if it compoletely overhauled the Wyches. As are they are a totally useless unit I would never use under any circumstances. Unless the core unit was drastically changed, I'd never want to take an actual force of them, so a supplement for them would be a bit useless.

On the Kabals, I could see an argument for omething thsat changed how a Kabal might work and was specifically themed. For example a Sky Serpents supplement, bringing back Duke Sliscus with changes to the tactics and new tricks for a Kabal to employ, that I could probably get behind.
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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Sun Jun 28 2015, 10:57

@Squidmaster wrote:
The first issue would be that Kabals wouldn;t get a supplement. Kabals are supposed to be the ground level basic which the Codex represents. As the Space Marine Codex represents Ultramarines, so does the Dark Eldar Codex represent the Kabals.
I can see a Wych supplement being a good idea, but only if it compoletely overhauled the Wyches. As are they are a totally useless unit I would never use under any circumstances. Unless the core unit was drastically changed, I'd never want to take an actual force of them, so a supplement for them would be a bit useless.

On the Kabals, I could see an argument for omething thsat changed how a Kabal might work and was specifically themed. For example a Sky Serpents supplement, bringing back Duke Sliscus with changes to the tactics and new tricks for a Kabal to employ, that I could probably get behind.

I agree.  With regards to a Wych supplement, I think it would be a good idea and we definitely need it.  The problem is that for Wyches, and Hellions, their baseline stats are so terrible, that the amount of USRs such a supplement would have to grant them as part of a formation to even make them decent would probably be too much even for the post-Necron design philosophy we've seen. Unless the supplement started by changing their basic stats and THEN piling USRs on top of them, I'm not sure that  a supplement could make them good enough to justify taking over Warriors and Reavers.

Edit: I wanted to add that I don't think GW would be willing to grant Dark Eldar Wych Cult units the necessary amount of USRs, wargear and genera buffs necessary to make them good. If they were Imperium or CWE, then I think GW would have no problem "fixing" them. However, as we've seen by now, there are just certain factions such as DE, Orks, and Blood Angels, that the GW design team just doesn't seem to put much effort into when it comes to making sure they're on par with the Eldar and Space Marines of the world.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Sun Jun 28 2015, 12:17

What I've heard is that we won't get ANY 40k for the next couple of months. So we have to wait. But that's something we're good at.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Sun Jun 28 2015, 15:05

I thought GW had quietly phased out supplements?
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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Sun Jun 28 2015, 15:27

@The Shredder wrote:
I thought GW had quietly phased out supplements?

I thought they had as well, since starting with Necrons, all the formations they used to include in a supplement are now in the regular codex.  However!  They then came out with the Deamonkin book, which, at least to me, is basically a supplement.  I did read an unconfirmed rumour that they were planning to do similar books for the rest of the Chaos Gods (Tzeentch, Nurgle, etc) as well. So maybe supplements aren't totally dead.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Sun Jun 28 2015, 15:31

@sweetbacon wrote:
@The Shredder wrote:
I thought GW had quietly phased out supplements?

I thought they had as well, since starting with Necrons, all the formations they used to include in a supplement are now in the regular codex.  However!  They then came out with the Deamonkin book, which, at least to me, is basically a supplement.  I did read an unconfirmed rumour that they were planning to do similar books for the rest of the Chaos Gods (Tzeentch, Nurgle, etc) as well.  So maybe supplements aren't totally dead.  

I thought they were breaking daemons into four books.
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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Sun Jun 28 2015, 15:47

@Jimsolo wrote:
@sweetbacon wrote:
@The Shredder wrote:
I thought GW had quietly phased out supplements?

I thought they had as well, since starting with Necrons, all the formations they used to include in a supplement are now in the regular codex.  However!  They then came out with the Deamonkin book, which, at least to me, is basically a supplement.  I did read an unconfirmed rumour that they were planning to do similar books for the rest of the Chaos Gods (Tzeentch, Nurgle, etc) as well.  So maybe supplements aren't totally dead.  

I thought they were breaking daemons into four books.

Oh, I hadn't heard that. So instead of getting one regular codex, they'll be getting four supplement-sized books each devoted to one Chaos God? Pretty clever, GW. I tip my hat to your blatant, but probably very effective, money-grab.
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Sun Jun 28 2015, 16:09

It isn't any different then break up all the different space marine chapters into their own Codices really.

As for supplements, thinking on it I would just be happy with an extensive Errate. Shredders gain the monofilament rule. Wyches can assault on the same turn they deepstrike. Ravagers can fire all their weapons at full ballistic skill after moving at cruising speed. Hellions are a troop choice and have outflank (just example of what they could do not what I expect them to do).

Does it "fix" us to be on par with Necons Codex, no but it would definitely help.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Sun Jun 28 2015, 19:18

Since they also include CSM elements, you are also getting CSM players to buy two books rather than one.
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Sun Jun 28 2015, 19:24

True.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Sun Jun 28 2015, 19:29

@Jimsolo wrote:
Since they also include CSM elements, you are also getting CSM players to buy two books rather than one.

Only 2?

If they're doing one for each god, won't CSM players have to buy 4 books? Razz
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Sun Jun 28 2015, 19:45

Wouldn't that depend on how they want to run their army? I don't own the Haemonculus Covens supplement for DE as I don't own and plan on running Coven units so I'm only forced, at this time to have the one book. If they only have an interest in Khorne (as way to many seem to have) then they only need the two.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Sun Jun 28 2015, 22:02

@CurstAlchemist wrote:
Wouldn't that depend on how they want to run their army? I don't own the Haemonculus Covens supplement for DE as I don't own and plan on running Coven units so I'm only forced, at this time to have the one book. If they only have an interest in Khorne (as way to many seem to have) then they only need the two.

All the CSM players I know focus on one.
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Mon Jun 29 2015, 00:18

I could see a Kabal of the Black Heart....or even a poison tounge ...or wait we have no named models for this....
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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Mon Jun 29 2015, 00:26

My dream supplement would be a campaign for the civil war. Kabal of the Black Heart and Cult of Strife vs Kabal of the Poison Tongue and Harleys. Release alongside models for the lady and Vect.
It would include..
Alternative FOC for dark eldar and harlequins with the lady as an HQ for DE And quins.
Formations that buff the Hell out of cult units.
Not likely, but a guy could dream right?
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Lord_Alino
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Mon Jun 29 2015, 01:53

@Bibitybopitybacon wrote:
My dream supplement would be a campaign for the civil war. Kabal of the Black Heart and Cult of Strife vs Kabal of the Poison Tongue and Harleys. Release alongside models for the lady and Vect.
It would include..
Alternative FOC for dark eldar and harlequins with the lady as an HQ for DE And quins.
Formations that buff the Hell out of cult units.
Not likely, but a guy could dream right?

I like the way you think.

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number9dream
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Tue Jun 30 2015, 12:13

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After all, there's no assurance that our codex will be updated this edition and it does badly need a bit of love.
Something someone posted somewhere and that made a lot of sense, was that the reason for the blandness of the DE codex could be that GW just needed to quickly get a new one out that made IP-protection type changes, following all the legal holabalooh earlier.

I.E Trueborn and Bloodbrides (who don't have models) merged into the warrior/wych unit entry, the culling of every model-less special character etc.

Maybe it's overly optimistic to hope they'll do a proper new DE codex when they have some of those models ready, but it's important to have dreams ^^
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Tue Jun 30 2015, 14:05

But Trueborn and Bloodbrides were part of the same entries with Kabalite Warriors and Wyches in 5th edition as well.
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number9dream
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Tue Jun 30 2015, 14:06

They were? I thought they had their own entry under elites... nevermind me then >_<
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Tue Jun 30 2015, 14:07

But that does devalidate the reasoning on the special characters.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Tue Jun 30 2015, 16:23

@CurstAlchemist wrote:
But Trueborn and Bloodbrides were part of the same entries with Kabalite Warriors and Wyches in 5th edition as well.

No, they had their own unit entries in the Elites section. Page 88 to be precise (yeah, I used Trueborn quite a lot back then!)

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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Tue Jun 30 2015, 16:31

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@CurstAlchemist wrote:
But Trueborn and Bloodbrides were part of the same entries with Kabalite Warriors and Wyches in 5th edition as well.

No, they had their own unit entries in the Elites section. Page 88 to be precise (yeah, I used Trueborn quite a lot back then!)

Oops I was thinking of the fluff section that had them all listed together on pages 26 and 27.
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: More Supplements?   Tue Jun 30 2015, 18:50

I can see them being more likely to release supplements for named kabals and cults rather than one for wyches specifically. Including some formations that force you to take a unit of wyches to be able to field the formation is the obvious option for them, where everybody gets some sort of buff to their power from pain if fielded as part of it or something like that. That way they still sell the models without having to overhaul them and end up having two different statlines for the same models. But I only say that it's more likely, not actually likely. Of course, I was amazed we got the covens book, so you never know!

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