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 Can a Wych Cult be viable?

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Can a Wych Cult be viable?   Thu Jul 02 2015, 00:20

Fleshbane Smile

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lelith
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PostSubject: Re: Can a Wych Cult be viable?   Thu Jul 02 2015, 04:07

In fact, Lhamaen is indeed a wych having (effectively) Fleshbane.

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urden93
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PostSubject: Re: Can a Wych Cult be viable?   Thu Jul 02 2015, 10:44

wychs just ned a lil point drop or poison dmg, and a formation or Duke or something to get 2 drog effect or rerrolling or choosing or something, i regularly trying them with more or less success, last time they caused ~15 wounds to TWC on the charge (i use joined eldar themes so spiritseer gave them some help with +1S) but my friend made ALL the saves... was realy frustrating :/ other times they cut up terminators in eldar thousand cut style
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Can a Wych Cult be viable?   Thu Jul 02 2015, 11:15

I think their old rules for the war gear was great. Also, o wouldn't mind seeing them poison on 4s at the very least.
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Can a Wych Cult be viable?   Thu Jul 02 2015, 12:37

I would happily accept poison or rending or extra drugs etc. but I want wyches to get the numerous awesome buffs the striking scorpions and howling banshees got... again. Plus even more from formations.

They are both elder and super combat specialists are they not? So why shouldn't they be at a similar power level?

Why do we always have to be conservative?
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Can a Wych Cult be viable?   Thu Jul 02 2015, 17:44

@Barking Agatha wrote:
In Warhamer Fantasy, Dark Elf Witch Elves were in many ways the counterpart to Wyches: Strength 3, Toughness 3, and no armour, and they drop like flies if anything shoots at them. And yet they kick ass.

Why not give Wyches the same ability that Witch Elves had? Every 'To Hit' roll of 6 causes an automatic wound. Harlequins already have that, and it is resolved at AP 2, but I'm not even suggesting that. Just a normal, AP - whatever-you've-got wound.

I think that is among the more common suggestions for Wyches and I think it is a very reasonable one. I also think it would be the most fluffy solution.

Of course, I wouldn't say no to poison but I think we already have enough poison and it would make Wracks even more obsolete...
Better give Wyches at least something that can deal with armor to a certain degree imo.
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lament.config
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PostSubject: Re: Can a Wych Cult be viable?   Thu Jul 02 2015, 18:04

Some bonus to wound on atleast models with wych weapons, protection from overwatch and a buff to the Succubus' dodge save (3+)
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Can a Wych Cult be viable?   Thu Jul 02 2015, 18:13

@The Strange Dark One wrote:


I think that is among the more common suggestions for Wyches and I think it is a very reasonable one. I also think it would be the most fluffy solution.

Of course, I wouldn't say no to poison but I think we already have enough poison and it would make Wracks even more obsolete...
Better give Wyches at least something that can deal with armor to a certain degree imo.

The problem is that you make Wracks obsolete no matter what you give to Wyches.
If we get rending or even "old" rending (like harlequins) they would be already better as wracks do not contribute anything our shooting weapons can not contribute.
Also Wyches would have a 4++ and a 5+ FnP instead of a 6+ and 5+ FnP.
Armor penetration is more important than a flat 4+ to wound (especially as the Wyches can go to S5 with the right drugs)
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Can a Wych Cult be viable?   Thu Jul 02 2015, 18:14

So... Looking at Wyches compare to Some others Like Deamonettes.

9pts

5++ Always save
WS5, I5, A2.
Fleet and Rending
+3" run with DS

its things like this that makes me sad.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Can a Wych Cult be viable?   Thu Jul 02 2015, 18:18

Go and compare it to AP3 Bloodletters for 10 points.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Can a Wych Cult be viable?   Thu Jul 02 2015, 18:19

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
Go and compare it to AP3 Bloodletters for 10 points.

But Fleet/rending is a better playstyle fit Smile

Honestly the Daemons book IMO is one of the best written books I have sen in 40k. I think Iw ill pick them up when I get my Bonus.

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Can a Wych Cult be viable?   Sat Jul 04 2015, 13:16

Just ran a Wych cult in a game. The initial plan was a small game against a rookie player so I built the most underpowered army I could. Then our local 'nid Hive Tyrant turned up and we decided to drop our 1,250 armies down to 1,000 points apiece and teamed up to fight him.

Naturally, since he was running a monster mash I was kicking myself for not having my Kabalite Warriors in support. Still, we did amazingly well for the first half of the game until the dice decided to screw our side over all of the way (as in my new succubus failed to inflict a single wound in 3 rounds of combat at strength 5, I missed with an entire round of shooting from 3 raiders, a ravager and a razorwing all targeting the same 'nid, I was making maybe 1 save in 5 on 4++, that sort of thing). Amazingly out of 2 units of wyches and one unit of bloodbrides serious badassness took place, with the only unit to get less than two units killed at 0 casualties was the wyches who got shot up before reaching anything (stupid failed charges!). Then my luck changed for everything except for one unit of wyches, who continued to cut a swathe through anything that came into contact with them before finishing the game, still at full strength, scoring a linebreaker point!

We still lost due to the 'nids player having amazing luck with his objective cards and being unable to fail at anything after turn 3, but it was a close game.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Can a Wych Cult be viable?   Sat Jul 04 2015, 15:58

Failed charges, and death to overwatch, are not exceptions for wyches, they're the rule.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Can a Wych Cult be viable?   Sat Jul 04 2015, 17:11

@amorrowlyday wrote:
Failed charges, and death to overwatch, are not exceptions for wyches, they're the rule.

Neither has ever occurred to me. (I assume you mean total death, not loss of a model or two.
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Can a Wych Cult be viable?   Sat Jul 04 2015, 19:43

I wrote a long reply to this topic about what I thought were the best ways to get the most out of Wyches, but keeping your actual question in mind (Can a Wych Cult be viable?) I can probably pare it down a bit.

Nope.

They're too expensive, too fragile, with no cost effective delivery system. Overwatch rips through them, if they even make it as far as charging something, then when they get there you're probably hoping for them to hang in there rather than actually win, which is not good for a close combat unit. I have Wyches and Hellions sitting on my shelf gathering dust, and at this point I would actually be more inclined to field Hellions Sad

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Can a Wych Cult be viable?   Sat Jul 04 2015, 20:38

I would use Hellions as beast masters anyway...
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Rusty293
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PostSubject: Re: Can a Wych Cult be viable?   Thu Jul 09 2015, 10:37

I was thinking about using msu wyches on foot alongside a cast of players and the heroes path formations to try to take advantage of the crusader bubble effect and buffs from the shadowseers psychic powers. As others have said wyches by themselves aren't what they were, and aren't even what they were back in the 3rd edition dex (miss the old wych weapons), but with some buffs from psychic powers and support from other elements of a wyches cult (beastmasters and reavers) I think they could be useful. You're also highly dependent on a decent drugs roll, just pray you don't roll a 6! All in all there's just alot of effort needed to make them useful that's all. I used them in my last game to great effect alongside some incubi, charged up a flank into some assault terminators using them to hold them up whilst the incubi moved into position to assault the following turn.
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Drk_Oblitr8r
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PostSubject: Re: Can a Wych Cult be viable?   Sun Jul 26 2015, 12:09

I've found that Wych cults work well with a lot of support. A lot of it, maybe too much. My list went from 90% Wych to roughly 60% as time has gone on.
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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: Can a Wych Cult be viable?   Sun Jul 26 2015, 23:19

Ah, Wyches.

Every time I look at them in the Codex my hopes and expectations drop still further, yet somehow, when I use them, they do ok. I don't know how.

Admittedly, my meta is pretty low powered, but somehow my Wyches seem to run on the law of Conservation of Ninjutsu. If I take two squads the first will always die horribly, but the second becomes awesome. Back when Wraithknights were monstrous creatures a squad with an agoniser were excellent at finishing them (not so much now I'd wager).

As to using them to get more than you expect (if less than you'd hope)? Usually I'll merely aim to tie up enemy shooty units. The 4++ and feel no pain is usually enough to make guys with only one attack each struggle so long as you have enough girls live through overwatch.

Don't expect them to go toe to toe with a real assault unit, and you won't be disappointed. Well, not as often anyway.
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