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 How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Sat Jun 27 2015, 14:00

I'm a touch late to the party but...

1) DE are currently slower than CWE.
This needs to change. Here are my suggestions:

Wych cult units should be able to charge after running/moving flat out. Hell, make jetbike HOW hit at Strength times 2 if the unit moved at least 36 inches this turn.

Wych cult units need to be able to disembark and charge after the vehicle moves 12 inches. Suddenly we're moving 12", disembarking 6", running 2d6 take the highest, then charging 2d6 with rerolls. Max potential charge distance: 32". Average charge distance: 28"-30". Suddenly Wyches can make it into close combat without getting shot to pieces in the previous shooting phase.

Allow DE units to Jink without firing snap shots next round, provided they moved at least 12" in their last movement phase, and allow them to snap fire in the same turn as they move flat out.

Give our fliers Vector Dance, and give the Razorwing split fire so that we can strafe with missiles and dogfight at the same time.

Allow Hellions to assault after deep striking.

2) We lack the cannon part of "Glass Cannon"

Let's go back to Wyches. Give them AP 2 always wounds when rolling 6's to wound. Also, let's give them WS 5 BS 3 (6/4 and 2 wounds for the leader). Finally, let's make that dodge save last for the whole assault phase so they don't get cut to pieces by overwatch.
Let's up the cost on Blood Brides to +5 points, allow them to take as many Wych/special weapons as they want (at standard prices), give them WS 6 BS 4 (7/5 and two wounds for the leader, who's not that far away from Succubushood...), the same special rules as Wyches, and rampage.
Let's also give Wych leaders (including Succubi) a 3+ dodge in challenges, along with preferred enemy. Wyches and Succubi should fricking rock in challenges.

Now shooting. Poisoned 4+ is perfectly fine, but let's give it a S3 base. That means that Guardsmen and other T 3 are living in fear of our 4+ with rerolls, and well they should be. I'd also throw on a variant of pinning that gives a -1 to the leadership check per casualty, as our weapons should terrify. Why? They're non-lethal. Our guns cripple you with unimaginable, unrelenting pain that leaves you wailing and screaming and begging your comrades for death, while leaving you ripe to be picked up at our earliest convenience. We are the reason the night is feared, and there's a reason they whisper "Don't let them take you alive".

Anti-vehicle.
Ravagers should be the last thing a foe ever sees. Let's make them good. Split fire, optional skyfire, and the ability to fire all their guns at once while moving at cruising speeds is a great start for that. Add blinding to Dark Lances as they burn out your retinas with un-light, making them potentially very nasty against the GMCs that our poison doesn't work against.

I'm not going to comment on Covens as I don't have any experience with that section of the army.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Sat Jun 27 2015, 14:10

Bear in mind that you need S4 poison in order to get rerolls against T3.
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Sat Jun 27 2015, 14:11

@The Shredder wrote:
Bear in mind that you need S4 poison in order to get rerolls against T3.

Oh, my bad. Let's go with that.

The other stuff still stands, though.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Sat Jun 27 2015, 16:43

Would you like fries with that? Seriously, that's a bit too much. Allowing witches to disembark after 12 inch, run AND charge? I'd be happy if:
- Soul fright weapons against ATSKNF, not fearless
- Give us more special weapons options, like Haywire Blaster for Kabalite
- Give Hellions an additional attack to make them close combat squads
- Give witches better special weapons: rending or poison blades or agoniser for 10/10/15

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Sat Jun 27 2015, 16:49

@CptMetal wrote:
Would you like fries with that? Seriously, that's a bit too much. Allowing witches to disembark after 12 inch, run AND charge? I'd be happy if:
- Soul fright weapons against ATSKNF, not fearless

I'd also suggest that Soulfright should stack in some way - so that multiple instances of it aren't meaningless.

@CptMetal wrote:

- Give Hellions an additional attack to make them close combat squads

Nice start, but not nearly enough to salvage them.

@CptMetal wrote:

- Give witches better special weapons: rending or poison blades or agoniser for 10/10/15

Rending should be standard on them. Also, unless they're AP3, poison weapons are not going to be worth 10pts (unless you mean 10pts for the entire squad).
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thenick18
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Sat Jun 27 2015, 17:07

One could go on and on with endless ways to improve DE which is a depressing thought in and of itself.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Sat Jun 27 2015, 18:12

@thenick18 wrote:
One could go on and on with endless ways to improve DE which is a depressing thought in and of itself.

To be honest, I think the best way to improve DE would be to put them in the hands of designers who actually care about them.

As opposed to ones who think "Ugh, let's just get this book out of the way so we can get back to updating real codices."
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Sat Jun 27 2015, 18:54

I just want ravagers with flipping Void lances
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doriii
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Sat Jun 27 2015, 19:26

our lances=AP1 go go go
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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Sat Jun 27 2015, 20:51

Give splinter weapons pinning.
Let wyches choose their drug.
Give wyches dodge during the whole assault phase
Let Passengers jump out of transports before they explode.
Ravagers come in squadrons
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doriii
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Sat Jun 27 2015, 20:52

problem solved. call GW and make it official
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Sun Jun 28 2015, 02:18

@CptMetal wrote:
Would you like fries with that? Seriously, that's a bit too much.

I got excited and kinda... overdid it.

Also, I'd love fries with that. To go?
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Sun Jun 28 2015, 22:02

Medium or large?
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Sun Jun 28 2015, 22:15

@JackKnife01 wrote:
Medium or large?

Large. If a thing is worth doing, it's worth overdoing.
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Sun Jun 28 2015, 23:11

Speaking of large and overdoing. I went to a 2500 ''Ard Boyz yesterday and went 2-1. Lost to Blood Angels and Mechancium. I ran my Kabal with no grots. I won against necrons and Damon flying circus. Lost first round 20-7. Second round won 21-7. Won third round 17-8 (Flying Daemon Circus).
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Sun Jun 28 2015, 23:19

@JackKnife01 wrote:
Speaking of large and overdoing. I went to a 2500 ''Ard Boyz yesterday and went 2-1. Lost to Blood Angels and Mechancium. I ran my Kabal with no grots. I won against necrons and Damon flying circus. Lost first round 20-7. Second round won 21-7. Won third round 17-8 (Flying Daemon Circus).

*Begins singing*
Did you ever know that you're my hero-

*Gets shot to pieces by everyone to hear the horrible singing*


Last edited by FuelDrop on Mon Jun 29 2015, 00:14; edited 1 time in total
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Mon Jun 29 2015, 00:00

I thank you but I only came 8 out of 23 or 24. I say 23 or 24 because I think one guy dropped
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Mon Jun 29 2015, 05:15

You won against Necrons and demon flying circus? See...? We aren't that bad.

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+++++INCOMING TRANSMISSION+++++
The Dark Eldar Codex sucks. You probably won just because your enemy loaded his dice to loose. Never forget this mantra and spread the word. Mention it in every discussion possible, people can´t get enough of that valuable information and need to be reminded regularely.
+++++END OF TRANSMISSION+++++
http://www.thedarkcity.net/t12720-tainted-reborn
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Mon Jun 29 2015, 05:31

Eh. Daemon flying circus all I could really do is run around the table. Not fun, but that wasn't us that was him casting invisibility on all things and rerolling 1s and having a 2 up cover save. Now necrons was a fight but I stack one corner of the deployment zone and killed the opposite. First blood was a unit of wraiths. My plan for how to beat them was simple. Take out their fast troops and use my speed better. Which is what I did.
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Leninade
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Mon Jun 29 2015, 23:39

I've actually been thinking that the book could be fixed by upping the standard Dark Eldar S stat from 3 to 4. That would see wyches charging at S5 on turn 4... Standard. Get lucky with the drugs and its S6. The problem with drugs being that you're equally likely to hit +1LD
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Tue Jun 30 2015, 03:00

I'd be more comfortable with arming the wyches with the default weapon: wychknyfe, which would give them +1 Strength. (Maybe even only when charging.)
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Leninade
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Tue Jun 30 2015, 05:49

I feel if it were army wide it would justify the cost of our units a bit more as well as lining up with the glass cannon theme of our army
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Scrz
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Tue Jun 30 2015, 10:02

I think we can get back in the game by getting back some of the rules we had before.

The splinter cannon needs to go back to being assault.
Let a 10 man warrior squad take two heavy weapons.
Flicker fields back as option on raiders.
Characters that can kill other characters, and that can join bikes and hellions.
Furthermore,
More drugs please. Let all characters be able to get in on the fun.
I'd field wyches if they got bladestorm in CC.

Or... none of the above but make the stormsurge fromation playable in vanilla 40K.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Tue Jun 30 2015, 10:27

Know what would make us instantly competitive without any other changes?

Going back to 5th.

I'm willing to bet our 7th edition book can out-5th any of the 5th edition books. Razz
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: How can the Dark Eldar become competitive??   Tue Jun 30 2015, 12:53

Most def. I really do think our book was written in 6ed and released 7th just because
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