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 How to play against Harlequins

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AdmiralKosh
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PostSubject: How to play against Harlequins   Mon Jun 22 2015, 00:05

I didn't really see any topics regarding how to actually play against a harlequin player and considering my most common opponent (Read: Brother) has picked them up, I was just wondering if anyone has some general tips when playing against them. He likes to bring souped up troupes with the fleshbane AP 2 pistols in addition to lots of starweavers and shadowseers. I am rather glad he has quit playing serpent spam ( Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad ) but many of the rules he references are frankly mystifying. How would you all approach this army in general?
--Admiral

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: How to play against Harlequins   Mon Jun 22 2015, 01:32

Drown him in gunfire from as far away as possible. His saves are for crap, so that's a boon. Razorwings are nice, since he has virtually no anti air. Haywire Scourges are good to pop those Starweavers. If you can surround his vehicle before breaking it (Like with Reavers) you can kill all his troops via seatbelt fatality.
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MarcoAvrelis
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PostSubject: Re: How to play against Harlequins   Tue Jun 23 2015, 01:39

I'd say take the helm of spite just out of spite. This will make the shadowseers think twice. Also, I'd say cluster caltrops and massed warriors is your greatest hope.
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: How to play against Harlequins   Tue Jun 23 2015, 04:30

Ravagers with diss cannons. Switch to diss cannons on all you can if you want to talor. High ap, lots of shots, and wounds on 3s.
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: How to play against Harlequins   Tue Jun 23 2015, 04:35

Wound on 2's you mean.

To be honest, the DE are a very good counter to the harlies - DE always do well against low model count elite armies!

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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: How to play against Harlequins   Tue Jun 23 2015, 05:13

I was going against their highest toughness and best spammed unit, the bikes.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: How to play against Harlequins   Tue Jun 23 2015, 05:24

Who has the money to buy that many of their bikes, lol?

I was thinking an MSU build would do really well against harlies, since they cost so damn much to field. Covens would just wade through their Fear, Pinning, and Morale shenanigans (although Psychic Shriek or the Phantasmancy powers could REALLY f--- up a Grotesque unit).
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: How to play against Harlequins   Tue Jun 23 2015, 19:16

@Jimsolo wrote:
Who has the money to buy that many of their bikes, lol?

There is a guy at my local gaming store who just bought 10 boxes of Windriders, a seer council and Farseer on jetbikes in one go. These kinds of people do exist even if they are rare. Did I mention that he has a Tau Manta?
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Trystis
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PostSubject: Re: How to play against Harlequins   Wed Jun 24 2015, 01:07

Harlequins are generally only able to field a few small, but expensive units. Use MSUs so that if they make it to one you don't lose much of value. They're shooting is limited to 24" so you should be able to kite them pretty easily, especially if you can eliminate their transports quickly. Remember that it will be more important to maintain distance than to shoot, spread out and force them to chase you while you plink away until they're no longer combat effective. Avoid close combat unless they're no other options until late in the game when you have PfP going and have weakened them though shooting.
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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: How to play against Harlequins   Wed Jun 24 2015, 03:32


DE are very mobile. We do not need to fear harlequins. If harlies get into cc they will wreck anything but they need to get there. If we play any very mobile list we will win this battle. Multiple reaver units, lots of venoms, flyers all have their way with harlies. We need to avoid talos, grots WWP lists. These are not optimum choices vs. harlies. As mentioned you kill the transports and maintain distance to win.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: How to play against Harlequins   Wed Jun 24 2015, 05:11

You don't think they can match us for mobility?
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Trystis
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PostSubject: Re: How to play against Harlequins   Wed Jun 24 2015, 06:56

I think they can match us as long as their transport are operational. Mono-harlequins are heavily reliant on them so once they are gone their mobility and range are easily managed. The advantage of MSU is that they will probably make it to a few units so these can be sacrificed while you kill the transports, when their gone you can stay back and shoot the troupes away.
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MarcoAvrelis
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PostSubject: Re: How to play against Harlequins   Wed Jun 24 2015, 08:35

Also, do not forget that:

A) In most detachments/formations, Harlies may run and assault in the same turn, giving them an 18,75" average cc threat range. +6" if in a transport.

B) Veil of Tears; Their primaris power is a blessing (so you can't deny it), and if it goes trough (it's WC1), any of your units wishing to shoot at a veiled unit must roll 2d6 and multiply it by 2. (average of 14, min of 4, max of 24), if you're within that many inches, you may shoot them as normal, if not, you may not shoot at all for the rest of the turn. Not even target a different unit. Thus, you'll need to bee within 24" of a veiled unit to have a 1/36 chance to shoot, and with in 14" to have a 21/36 chance to shoot. So, if your opponent spams Veil of Tears, as your opponent should, you can forget about the kite.
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Trystis
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PostSubject: Re: How to play against Harlequins   Wed Jun 24 2015, 09:19

@MarcoAvrelis wrote:
Also, do not forget that:

A) In most detachments/formations, Harlies may run and assault in the same turn, giving them an 18,75" average cc threat range. +6" if in a transport.

B) Veil of Tears; Their primaris power is a blessing (so you can't deny it), and if it goes trough (it's WC1), any of your units wishing to shoot at a veiled unit must roll 2d6 and multiply it by 2. (average of 14, min of 4, max of 24), if you're within that many inches, you may shoot them as normal, if not, you may not shoot at all for the rest of the turn. Not even target a different unit. Thus, you'll need to bee within 24" of a veiled unit to have a 1/36 chance to shoot, and with in 14" to have a 21/36 chance to shoot. So, if your opponent spams Veil of Tears, as your opponent should, you can forget about the kite.

Veil of Tears can't be cast while in a transport, it can be denied (all blessings can), and it only take one to fail to leave the unit completely vulnerable. Wait till one seer barely passes the test and throw all you deny dice at. Even if they pass each harlequin killed drastically decreases the effectiveness.  

I recommended multiple small units with the knowledge that they will make it to one periodically. If they assault the unit they will probably demolish it and then be left out in the open and vulnerable to be shot. If they field a unit in every slot they still won't have many. Dark Eldar can field far more units so the attrition will be in our favor.

If the average threat range is 19"ish you can keep your units 20" away and concentrate your fire plinking away at them while they try and chase you around the board/hang out on objective.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: How to play against Harlequins   Wed Jun 24 2015, 09:31

@MarcoAvrelis wrote:
B) Veil of Tears; Their primaris power is a blessing (so you can't deny it)

You can still attempt to deny but you need 6's with no modifiers permitted.

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AdmiralKosh
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PostSubject: Re: How to play against Harlequins   Wed Jun 24 2015, 15:34

Thanks guys for all the feedback!
I played a game against him yesterday and brought a corpsetheif claw in addition to a dark artisan and grotesquire. I did pretty dang good we just played the game out and it came down to him having just 3 models left while I still had the entire corpse! It was interesting but next time I know I am bringing lots of warriors and such in their transports along with the dark artisan. But yea overall it was nowhere near as bad as the ye old serpent spam (he still plays with 6th eldar cause he hasn't bought the codex Evil or Very Mad ) Amusingly enough he has threatened to just fill in extra points with waveserpents....
--Admiral

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