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 New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 12:07

DA needed a boost so I don't begrudge the long suffering DA players out there finally getting some love (can you feel a "but" coming?) BUT a couple of things they allegedly get really grinds my gears!

#1 "Summoned to War is a detachment rule, all units in detachment must start in Deep Strike reserve, if army has a RW Attack Squadron or Strike Force you basically choose the results of Reserve Rolls for the detachment."

Seriously!?!

A bunch of green robed spess muhreens are far more skilled at co-ordinating reserves and counter attacks than an elder race with super advanced tech, flying antigrav speedboats that can effortlessly move through dimensions of space and time!?! WTF!?!

This should be a DE thing GW you drooling, ignorant imbeciles!!! Mad Mad Mad

Oh yeah they also get potent psychics that attack your Ld, again pretty much ripping of something that we do except they don't need to combine multiple formations and codexes to make it work like we have to! Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

To top it all off DA overwatch like a freaking boss!

Again i'm not upset at DA players, they deserve a good dex, I'm upset at the lazy, incompetent mouth breathers at GW that seem to have completely forgotten about DE!!

Now i'm off to have a stiff drink and a lie down.

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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 12:47

Yep, confirms my theory that all the "newer" 7th ed dex's are being powered up, starting at Necron's - but where does that leave us I wonder - can we expect a new dataslate or formation that gives us some of the buffs we so desperately need (like assault from reserve, or some assault based battle focus type bonus) to be fastest in all the universe again.......

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 12:56

I've felt the same way about all the books since Necrons, tbh.

- With Necrons, virtually every bad unit got a massive buff to bring it up to standards (arguably above standards, in some cases). Then I look at our book - with Wyches, and Hellions actually getting worse (if you can believe that), and basically our entire HQ section made worthless.

- Daemonkin are based around a more developed and really fun version of our own PfP rule. In contrast, we were landed with a rule that might as well represent our army getting stronger as its Archon's progresses through filling out his tax returns.

- Eldar... do I even need to comment?

- Cult Mechanicus have Long-range 2-shot S6 Haywire guns on their basic troops, and their Heavy Support option is Talos +1. They also have a non-psyker support HQ that's actually worth its cost. What a concept.

- SMs were already solid, but got buffed anyway.

- And then, of course, we have DAs.


I feel like I've paid to go to an expensive party, only for the host to tell me that the food hasn't arrived and I'll have to make do with some cold meat in the kitchen. As soon as I go in, he locks the door and leaves me to watch through the keyhole as he wheels out a 12-course meal for his other guests.


@1++ wrote:
Yep, confirms my theory that all the "newer" 7th ed dex's are being powered up, starting at Necron's - but where does that leave us I wonder - can we expect a new dataslate or formation that gives us some of the buffs we so desperately need (like assault from reserve, or some assault based battle focus type bonus) to be fastest in all the universe again.......

We can expect nothing, because no one at GW gives the slightest crap about our army.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 13:12

Did anyone of you actually fight against the new Marines? No? So stop complaining until you know what's up.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 13:43

@CptMetal wrote:
Did anyone of you actually fight against the new Marines?

Yes, actually. Neutral
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 13:54

@CptMetal wrote:
Did anyone of you actually fight against the new Marines? No? So stop complaining until you know what's up.

Erm... yes?
And believe me 500 points of free vehicles really really really sucks.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 14:00

Also, even if we hadn't played the new marines, there's a mystical process called 'extrapolation' - whereby we can use existing data to make reasonable estimates for unknown (but related) data.

And, since the SM book remained largely remained the same, it isn't exactly hard to make accurate predictions based on the changed.

e.g. scouts getting +1WS and +1BS at no cost. Gee, is this a buff or a nerf? Well obviously only playtesting can possibly tell us. This brought to you by the sort of people who presumably think you need to shoot yourself, before you're allowed to say that you don't like being shot. Because obviously there's no other way you could possibly reach that conclusion. Rolling Eyes
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 15:14

I'm starting to think that the GW employees are interprets the whole "Eldar technology is so advanced that the Humans can't understand it" as, "Humans can't understand why this advanced race does everything wrong and why bother to understand their technology when we can do it better with our own technology even after losing a large chunk of Human technology after the Horus Heresy."

If you doubt this look at the 30k items and units.

The pessimist in me is coming to the conclusion that having the newer codex all but stealing our role fluff wise, is GW's ploy to slowly make us obsolete in hopes of drawing players away from the Dark Eldar so that they can phase us out.

Unfortunately, the optimist in me is no where to be found as of late.

But I've been told by a couple of people at my Local Game Shop that I'm over reacting and that if Dark Eldar was to have any kind of buff (such as our boats not being made out of paper and giving them back flicker field upgrades) that we would be overpowered and the treatment of our book was necessary to keep us from being the most overpowered codex in the game. The strange thing is, I'm one of 2 Dark Eldar Players there and I never win as I'm just getting back into Warhammer 40k after missing 6th edition. Well that and I play a Kabal focused fluff list instead of competitively.

/rant.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 15:52

Best cure for that is switch armies. After a few times switching up my gaming group has gone from "DE are pretty strong if you know how to play" over to "I really don't even understand how this army can survive past turn 3"
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 16:01

@CurstAlchemist wrote:
I'm starting to think that the GW employees are interprets the whole "Eldar technology is so advanced that the Humans can't understand it" as, "Humans can't understand why this advanced race does everything wrong and why bother to understand their technology when we can do it better with our own technology even after losing a large chunk of Human technology after the Horus Heresy."

lol!

@CurstAlchemist wrote:

The pessimist in me is coming to the conclusion that having the newer codex all but stealing our role fluff wise, is GW's ploy to slowly make us obsolete in hopes of drawing players away from the Dark Eldar so that they can phase us out.

I'd be a little surprised if that was the case - simply because I doubt GW wants to actually phase out any of our models.

Really, it seems like they want people to buy DE models but then do nothing with them. Possibly just keep them on shelves in basements, so that we don't accidentally offend the glorious Space Marine-Playing master race.

@CurstAlchemist wrote:

But I've been told by a couple of people at my Local Game Shop that I'm over reacting and that if Dark Eldar was to have any kind of buff (such as our boats not being made out of paper and giving them back flicker field upgrades) that we would be overpowered and the treatment of our book was necessary to keep us from being the most overpowered codex in the game.

I can only presume that such people keep their brains in their rectums, and only bring them out on special occasions.

@CurstAlchemist wrote:
The strange thing is, I'm one of 2 Dark Eldar Players there and I never win as I'm just getting back into Warhammer 40k after missing 6th edition. Well that and I play a Kabal focused fluff list instead of competitively.

I've at least won some of my games with DE, although several such wins have been against armies that were rather bad matchups to begin with - like biker-spam or a Khorne army with virtually all the points sunk into Daemon Princes and Bloothirsters.

In any case, what I really hate about this book is that virtually every decision feels like I'm being asked "do you want to have a fluffy army, or a good army? Because you're only allowed to be one."

With my other armies, I feel that I have the freedom to mess around a bit with what I choose, but for DE it just feels like I need every advantage I can possibly get just to break even. With my other armies, I might consider how much wargear is too much for my characters (I like having at least some wargear for fluff reasons). However, with DE, buying characters at all feels like throwing points down the drain. And that's even before we get to the overpriced piddle that passes for our wargear.
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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 16:09

Jeese Louise everyone, I hate to be negative about all of he negativity here but....

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 16:18

@Evil Space Elves wrote:
Jeese Louise everyone, I hate to be negative about all of he negativity here but....

You're right, I am being negative.

Tell you what - I'll stop ragging on the DE book when a angelic choir descends to earth to fix the bloody thing.
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 16:19

@The Shredder wrote:

I'd be a little surprised if that was the case - simply because I doubt GW wants to actually phase out any of our models.

Really, it seems like they want people to buy DE models but then do nothing with them. Possibly just keep them on shelves in basements, so that we don't accidentally offend the glorious Space Marine-Playing master race.

Lol I highly doubt that is the case as well, GW is a business and as long as they are selling the items they will continue to support it. About a week ago I was looking to order off the GW website and many of the DE miniatures were out of stock meaning that they are selling as their stock fell behind production. My statement was more of a rant then really being grounded in reality.

The guys that said to me that DE would be over powered play Tau and Necrons by the way if you were curious. I've only had the opportunity to play 4 games and I haven't had a chance to play against the Tyranid player who, hasn't faced Dark Eldar before and really wants to play against me.

@Evil Space Elves: Lol, I hadn't seen that one before, in my case I was just venting a bit.


Last edited by CurstAlchemist on Sun Jun 21 2015, 16:22; edited 1 time in total
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 16:21

If DA is beefed up I'm heartened. Every codex since Necrons is getting buffed, which means there is still hope for a legitimate version of our own book down the road.
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 16:28

@CurstAlchemist wrote:

Lol I highly doubt that is the case as well, GW is a business and as long as they are selling the items they will continue to support it. About a week ago I was looking to order off the GW website and many of the DE miniatures were out of stock meaning that they are selling as their stock fell behind production. My statement was more of a rant then really being grounded in reality.

The guys that said to me that DE would be over powered play Tau and Necrons by the way if you were curious. I've only had the opportunity to play 4 games and I haven't had a chance to play against the Tyranid player who, hasn't faced Dark Eldar before and really wants to play against me.

@Evil Space Elves: Lol, I hadn't seen that one before, in my case I was just venting a bit.

So true. There's always a strong drive to rant and lament when a new book comes out, but this army survived with a strong fan base for over a decade without the latest and greatest. To be honest, I've always been drawn to the army because it isn't a simple Easy Button army. It may take a little while, but DE will get there's eventually. And at the pace things are released, "eventually" is like six months now lol!

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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 16:52

I love my Dark Eldar... Here's some suggestions in the form of units that I am kicking ass with all over the place: Corpsetheif claw (aka 5 ways to mess up your crap), Grostesqurie in raiders (the best way to kill Centurians since Centurians. Oh, you can't overwatch... sorry sadface), 3x razorwing jetfighters with str 7 rockets (The venoms of the air), Venoms (oh you killed a venom... I've eight more).

Dark Eldar are aces. They're not the best, but I'll go toe to toe with any of those new codex bitches!

RB
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 17:46

@CptMetal wrote:
Did anyone of you actually fight against the new Marines? No? So stop complaining until you know what's up.

I had a game against skyhammer with eldar (admittedly one of my strange lists) and lost 23-20. You can read about it on the last page of my blog here. Saying 'have you played against them yet' is not really meaningful. We can see what they can do with the new formations and codeci. That aside, I do feel that there are counters to anything SM can bring to the table although a DA Sicaran with twenty havocs seems 30k not 40k. The lines are blurring it seems.

As much as I love our dakka, I'm starting to feel we need a good lot of cc in our lists these days as well to counter some of these detachments and formations. But really we lack the psychic buffs available to other armies and that hurts. You are just handicapping playing a pure DE list. We do need Eldar I feel to be consistently competitive or else we just take on the spoiler role and beat up on our good matches.

Lets be honest - this is just the beginning. There are undoubtedly going to be more codecii released that will seem OP against us. But as it has been mentioned - we will survive and overcome - we just might have to tweak our lists a bit.

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 18:00

In my gaming group I have no problems to participate and not being a sacrifice. I don't win every game, but I am in the top 30%. Orcs are giving me a headache. But I have had problems with guard too and the last game was a massacre! I tried Phantasm weapons and such for the first time and won.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 18:43

@Jimsolo wrote:
If DA is beefed up I'm heartened. Every codex since Necrons is getting buffed, which means there is still hope for a legitimate version of our own book down the road.

Maybe at the start of 9th edition.
Don't forget we already had our 7th edition book, everyone updated was 6th.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 19:18

My concern is that, if we consider the current books the peak of power/flavour or whatever, then by the time our next book rolls around we'll be back to the troughs.
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 21:58

@The Shredder wrote:
My concern is that, if we consider the current books the peak of power/flavour or whatever, then by the time our next book rolls around we'll be back to the troughs.

This is my concern also. Last time we got our dex during GWs blandening phase. That didn't last long before they did a complete 180 and got back to power creep on roids.

On the flip side the more powerful the new dexes get the less bad I feel about taking powerful combos from the elder and covens books and I still win a lot more than I lose.

I'm not worried about the new SM (skitarii and admech super gun spam seems scary tho). I just needed to rant and rage a bit when stupid muhreens steal our tricks and do it better!
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 23:52

I played a game yesterday against the new space marines and yes some of there stuff did make me seriously question what was really going on (rerolling pretty much every dice in the shooting phase for example) and I was quite put off for a little while. However, the more I think about the new book and such, the more I realize we are just going to have to adapt some of our tactics and ways of thinking. I'm with ESE, its gonna take a bit to get used to things but we will recover, we are the dominant race after all, how can the insolent lesser races stand up to us? Wink
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Sun Jun 21 2015, 23:54

We got great models. Who cares about the rules?!


Seriously though, I can only hope that we get a buff the next one of our releases. Seriously. Also, it is hard to play against the newer armies. I try but dang it is hard. I have faced the new marines and I have won both but still. My Black Templars love it all. Still I hate how Eldar are faster that the army that is suppose to be the fastest. That was the whole reason we lost armor was to have speed!
Daemonkin get a great power from pain.
Pretty much we have been cut up. This blows. I try to just make it with just dark eldar. I don't want to ally anything.
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Mon Jun 22 2015, 05:02

One of my most frequent opponents plays Space Marines our last game he used the new dex, Salamanders are gross.
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Angels. Another reason to hate GW!   Mon Jun 22 2015, 06:03

I came to 40k through pod salamanders. Cool Yeah they are!
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