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 Actual Use for Wracks?

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Illumanatee
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PostSubject: Actual Use for Wracks?   Fri Jun 19 2015, 15:49

Though I know how bad wracks are compared to grots, I really like to field them because they look cool and have great fluff. The problem is that my planned competitive covens army consists of MCs, haemonculi and grots, so all the ( pretty expensive ) wracks and raiders I started getting into the hobby with are basically useless. This is why I'm trying to make them work competitively and though in my experience they always were doing worse than grots, I lately had two matches were they were doing exceptionally well ( for wrack standards ofc ).

I took 4 units of 5 bare bones wracks and bought raiders (aether sails, night shields) for 2 of those units, embarking the 2 units who haven't picked the dedicated transport on turn 1.
I placed both of the raiders with wracks on either flank and boosted into enemy lines turn 1, making use of cover and line of sight while still getting as deep and near as possible. The next turn was crucial. The raiders moved 6'', turning after to use its length as extra charge and movement range for the wracks inside. One unit of wracks disembarked on either side of the raider, moved 6, charged and bound as much units into combat as possible.

Normally you'd get shot at with covens a lot and you'd struggle against everything that is faster than you becaue you won't be able to get into assault range. The wracks however set almost every unit that can be bound into combat up to prevent that. I tried it once with a bunch of MCs which got into combat a lot more easier than usual and which also had the chance to catch some bikes which rarely every happens, the wracks making them immobile.
The other game I played with big WWP grot units. Normally the enemy has some time to react to them deepstriking next to him, but because the wracks bound everything that sat on objectives into combat they literally couldn't do anything. No shooting the grots, not even walking away from them. The wracks basically presented them to the grots on a silver plate.

Even if some wracks will die they won't care because they are fearless and tough, which will make for some long combats. Not only that, the raiders were able to capture home objectives that were left behind and immobilize the enemy even more by blocking them where it was needed.

Granted, if I were up against an army that has everything in transports the wracks would rarely have done anything. And I don't know how good wracks would have been able to fight a unit that can hit hard in CC, I was playing against Tau and ranged Space Marines. If they'd have charged into orks, they may haven't been able to really keep them in combat because they'd die early.

I can't tell if they are good with this tactic or struggle against too much armies that counter them, for that I have to test them some more. Yet I'm really hyped about the fact that wracks actually did something big.

Would love to see some replies and have you guys share experiences with me. I really would love to see some ideas on how to make them as good as the other units from the coven book, or at least more useful than usually.
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Unholyllama
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PostSubject: Re: Actual Use for Wracks?   Fri Jun 19 2015, 17:26

For me, Wracks aren't the most competitive unit in the codex/supplement; however, I love using them nonetheless.

In my experiences though, they are not THAT good at a competitive level and the unit doesn't scale well with their own model count.

1. Take them out of the Coven Supplement. Be it the detachment or one of the many formations, they are no where near as good from the straight codex due to the different priorities the PFP tables have.

2. 5 in a Venom is better than 5+ in a Raider. This is more a testament to the power of a Venom; however, in my experiences and tests, 1 Venom kills more models than 10 Wracks. On paper, this could be argued differently but in practice, it's what I've seen.

3. Special Weapons - Liquifier guns - personally not worth it. S3 is too big of a hit in my opinion and I don't waste the points. Ossafactors are great on the other hand since AP2 Fleshbane is better than their own melee attacks.

4. Acoythist - Not bad to get a Scissorhand; otherwise not worth it.

5. Purpose - objective grabbers and squatters. They aren't bad at CC due to 2 poison weapons, FNP, and being Fearless rather quickly; however, they still are no where near as good as other melee units we have. I use them in venoms to 1) get more venoms and 2) to hold objectives while the rest of my army keeps moving.


That's my opinion on them. I'm the only DE player in my group that uses them (2-3 of us total though) and in many lists I will sometimes NOT include them to make points for other things. If you look at them as a Marine player would an Assault Marine or an Ork boy, you'll be disappointed. They ARE a threat to MC's due to the poison attacks and being fearless but getting them into combat is difficult.

I'll try them out again more in raiders and larger units and see how things go again. It's been a bit since i played like that but maybe it'll work better since the game has changed so much with new releases.
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doctorz
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PostSubject: Re: Actual Use for Wracks?   Fri Jun 19 2015, 19:12

Scalpel squadron is good for any number of reasons that are listed all over this site. So that's the most obvious competitive application of them.

Apart from that if you take them out of the covens supplement they become fearless starting on turn 2. They make a good tarpit unit that can hold up a lot of things for a turn or 2.
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Illumanatee
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PostSubject: Re: Actual Use for Wracks?   Fri Jun 19 2015, 21:54

@unholy lama
Probably didn't get my point through. I am not sending them into combat to kill a lot but rather to have a unit that is cheap and will keep them there for a while with their toughness and fearless, for the rest of my coven to make use of all the units that are immobilised and which can't shoot because of the wracks binding them in combat. I expect them to die sooner or later and to not deal much damage unlike you would expect from actual combat units like grots or orks. The fact that you can take 2 cheap units per 1 raider ( in contrary to grotesques ) makes them exceptionally good at binding as much units in combat as possible, because you've got 2 units per raider that can declare multiple charges rather than 1. In the games I played, 1 raider with 2 units of wracks were able to bind 4 enemy units in combat with multiple charges. They died rather quickly but bought the rest of my army enough time too follow them into combat pretty easily. I used them more like a supportive unit rather than a killy unit.
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Unholyllama
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PostSubject: Re: Actual Use for Wracks?   Fri Jun 19 2015, 22:24

@Illumanatee wrote:
@unholy lama
Probably didn't get my point through. I am not sending them into combat to kill a lot but rather to have a unit that is cheap and will keep them there for a while with their toughness and fearless, for the rest of my coven to make use of all the units that are immobilised and which can't shoot because of the wracks binding them in combat. I expect them to die sooner or later and to not deal much damage unlike you would expect from actual combat units like grots or orks. The fact that you can take 2 cheap units per 1 raider ( in contrary to grotesques ) makes them exceptionally good at binding as much units in combat as possible, because you've got 2 units per raider that can declare multiple charges rather than 1. In the games I played, 1 raider with 2 units of wracks were able to bind 4 enemy units in combat with multiple charges. They died rather quickly but bought the rest of my army enough time too follow them into combat pretty easily. I used them more like a supportive unit rather than a killy unit.

You can only put 1 unit in a Raider. While it can hold 10 models, you can only put a single unit into a single transport. So if you take 2 5-man Wrack units and only 1 Raider, only 1 of the Wrack units may be in the raider at a time.

Beyond that, I think I might have missed your point since it sounds like you're playing transports wrong.
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Illumanatee
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PostSubject: Re: Actual Use for Wracks?   Fri Jun 19 2015, 23:21

Owell, that sucks. Since other people in my gaming store were putting more than one unit in a transport aswell, I actually thought this was in the rules. Gotta inform them about this, thanks for telling me.

Seems like Scalpel Squadron is the way to go with wracks, not gonna use them though since I dislike venoms in my covens army. They don't really fit my armys' battle plan and philosophy.
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Actual Use for Wracks?   Sat Jun 20 2015, 16:13

even with a single big squad, you still can multicharge, if you keep unit coherency.
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: Actual Use for Wracks?   Sat Jun 20 2015, 16:26

@Illumanatee wrote:
Owell, that sucks. Since other people in my gaming store were putting more than one unit in a transport aswell, I actually thought this was in the rules. Gotta inform them about this, thanks for telling me.

Seems like Scalpel Squadron is the way to go with wracks, not gonna use them though since I dislike venoms in my covens army. They don't really fit my armys' battle plan and philosophy.

Was it using apocylpse models? Some of the super heavies can have more then one unit in them such as the Mantas and Vampire Raider.

If it was Space Marines then they might have been using the Tactical Squad rule where they can break up into smaller units after deploying as a larger, single unit.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Actual Use for Wracks?   Sat Jun 20 2015, 17:35

Tactical Squads changed in the last codex, btw. They can break up before deployment, and both squads can still ride in the same vehicle.

Independent Characters can also be in a vehicle with a unit, and can get out while the unit stays in, stay in while the unit gets out, or get out with the unit but separate to operate on their own. (So lots of room for confusion on this one.)
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Illumanatee
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PostSubject: Re: Actual Use for Wracks?   Sat Jun 20 2015, 23:30

I completely forgot about combat squading. Thanks for the reminder, would have looked like an complete idiot there Razz.
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lawlskees
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PostSubject: Re: Actual Use for Wracks?   Thu Jun 25 2015, 20:04

The lists that work best for me are where I Combine MSU with multiple major assault elements. Grots works best for this. The grotesquerie, split into 2 groups (never deepstriking, but in raiders), and usually joined with a succubus. Grots make a succubus ten times more survivable and affective.

Combine this with 5-7 venoms, a few Razorwings, and 3 squads of trueborn and you got yourself a pretty potent list that can deal with just about anything.

Wracks dont't really fit into this type of list for me, because the grots are just that much better. There is no comparison. They also draw more fire as they are quite terrifying for the opponent once he realizes what hes up against.
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lawlskees
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PostSubject: Re: Actual Use for Wracks?   Thu Jun 25 2015, 20:09

But, if you want to find a use for them, I'd suggest using them as cannon fodder or tying up things like you said. However, Keep them as CHEAP as possible. Do not waste points on the ossefactor. The only only way I see you running wracks besides this, is if you run like a corpsetheif with 6 venoms and use wracks as your troops. Full coven stuff, then maybe throw in a few special weapons. Just remember, warriors and truborn do it better.

If you like a model or unit enough, usually u can find some use for them. For me, I Just prefer Kabalites.
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