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 Dejected Over the Dark Kin.

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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Fri Jun 12 2015, 15:33

My thoughts exactly sheddar. Remember to run and gun. Don't fight a pitch battle. If that means staying put as they come to you good! Then as they get close move 12 in the movement and then 18 flat out. They probably won't catch you.
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corn_cob_cabal
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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Fri Jun 12 2015, 16:11

Have you considered taking a Lhamaean instead of an Archon (in 500-pt. games, at least)?
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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Fri Jun 12 2015, 18:31

As a few people have said, save points on your HQ any way you can at this points level. Five hundred points is a very difficult points limit to play Dark Eldar at, even Chaos have an easier time of it putting lists together at that level. Although it sounds like you're throwing good money after bad, I'd say get more stuff. I only started really enjoying Dark Eldar when I started playing bigger games with them, and although they can compete at low points levels, they don't have the luxury of tanky HQs straight off the bat, or big squads to soak up wounds.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Fri Jun 12 2015, 19:11

I agree with the assessment of your army list made by others that you are sinking too many points into the HQ. I will also add that, at 500 points, the Scourges are too specialized for what they cost. They are mediocre against infantry, and though solid against vehicles are not a good sole answer to vehicles, and are also a giant target priority for any enemy. Like, say I was playing your list against a copy of your list - I could drop down the Scourges/Archon and possibly fry a Venom - but then everything else in your army would fire at the Scourges, because if you killed them I would literally have nothing that could do anything to the other Venom. It's very eggs in one basket - and if your opponent has a vehicle capable of surviving the Scourges (which, if he has cover, or 3 hull points, or both, is hardly an earthshaking possibility) then it will always be a hard battle for you to overcome.

I will not disagree with the people suggesting the Lhamean though I will note that there is some debate as to the legality of that move - just make sure it works with your local group before buying anything new. Their core point of making sure that your HQ is affordable and functional holds very true however - the lower the point total of the game the more important it is to control the possible point sink that HQs can become.

Warriors are good with blasters, because blasters are capable (and, to a certain extent optimal) at killing literally everything in the game.

High armor? Blaster can kill it.
High toughness? Blaster can kill it.
Vehicle? Blaster can kill it.
Infantry? Blaster can kill it.
Monstrous Creature? Blaster can kill it.
Multiple wounds? Blaster can likely cause ID.
Ect. ect. ect.

The Blaster is a superlative weapon - it makes anything better that has one. Even if your goal is only to shoot up infantry - the blaster is still generally better at killing almost any and all infantry targets in the game than the splinter rifle (which already is a pretty good weapon) That's the point of taking a blaster on Warriors.

Mr Believer wrote:
Five hundred points is a very difficult points limit to play Dark Eldar at, even Chaos have an easier time of it putting lists together at that level.
I would actually argue that DE are one of the best armies at low point totals, and we get worse as the point total increases.

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Fri Jun 12 2015, 21:34

If I had to make a list on 500, I would do something like the following:

HQ
Lhamaean (keep in reserves and when she comes, hide her)

Troops
2x VenomWarrs with Blasters and 2x SC on Venom

FA
2x3 Reavers with Heat Lance and Caltrops (21'' melta range and assault move, great all-purpose unit and has 16% better chance to explode a vehicle)

HS
Dissie Ravager

This comes at total 506 pts. Not sure where to scratch those 6 pts though. :-) But that would be the general idea.
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LKHERO
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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Fri Jun 12 2015, 21:51

Raven Cowl wrote:
Thanks for the great response guys,

My list from the last game was

Archon w/ Blaster, WWP, and Shadowfield 150 pts

Warriors in Venom 105pts x 2

Haywire Scourges 120 Pts

Comes out to 480 out of 500 pts.

at low points we play for kill points and tabling at my FLGS.

You're not even playing 40K at this point level. Your Archon is also 30% of your points. Think about it for a second.

Getting "rolled" at 500 points is like playing baseball with 3 people and wondering why you can't get all the balls being hit.

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Raven Cowl
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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Sat Jun 13 2015, 02:33

The guys at my LGS believe that passengers are affected by our jinking transports. I doubt a 10 point HQ would fly.
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Sat Jun 13 2015, 02:39

They need to read the rule book and if a 10pt hq doesn't fly then maybe you are playing guys who are stacking odds against you. If it is a house rule, it is one almost solely stacked against eldar
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Raven Cowl
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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Sat Jun 13 2015, 03:06

JackKnife01 wrote:
They need to read the rule book and if a 10pt hq doesn't fly then maybe you are playing guys who are stacking odds against you. If it is a house rule, it is one almost solely stacked against eldar

I don't think they're stacking odds. I'll bring it up next time I'm down there but I'm not seeing it going over well.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Sat Jun 13 2015, 06:12

Its points cost is irrelevant. Datasheet says it is a HQ. Period.

Saying it cannot be done is absolutely the same as saying "you cant take Autarch and 3 jetbikes as a troop for allies detachment - they are too cheap - its exploiting rules". Understand that this is not exploiting rules. This is not some vague, badly worded rule. It is absolutely clear that the Court IS a HQ and can be taken as 1 model. Consider that a DE special ability. Seriously. Everyone else has formations, brutal stuff like 1+ FNP Smashfuckers and D-weapons and 30% pts bonuses through formations and they would DARE to call DE cheating when they field exactly the same thing - e.g. what the rules allow? Nonono... dont let anyone tell you that you are doing anything wrong. Lhamaeans would be perfectly capable of managing a mini raid like that. Archon would not even bother himself, nor would Succy.
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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Sat Jun 13 2015, 07:06

As far as that jink crap, they can go fly off the wall. Seriously. Rules state passengers aren't. They are house ruling you into the ground it seems.
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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Sat Jun 13 2015, 07:24

Raven Cowl wrote:
The guys at my LGS believe that passengers are affected by our jinking transports. I doubt a 10 point HQ would fly.

Passengers are not part of the same unit as the vehicle they are on. Even if they were, they don't have the Jink rule, and the rulebook says "if the unit jinks, all models in the unit with this special rule..." (emphasis mine). Passengers cannot suffer the snap-shooting penalty from jinking because they don't have Jink.

Here's a 500-point list I wrote up a while back:

Archon w/ blaster
5x Trueborn w/ 4 blasters, Raider w/ dark lance
5x Kabalites w/ blaster, Raider w/ dark lance
5x Kabalites w/ blaster, Venom w/ 2nd splinter cannon

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Sat Jun 13 2015, 08:22

Quote :
Passengers cannot suffer the snap-shooting penalty from jinking because they don't have Jink.

I suggest reading the text again. Not having jink doesn't prevent you from snapshooting. It just prevents you getting a 4+ cover save.

But on topic: Models embarked on vehicles do not suffer from jink as it is a different unit.
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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Sat Jun 13 2015, 12:44

The guy who said that plays Tau, a faction whose vehicles are rarely used and Chaos which to my knowledge has no jinking transports. So, it's really quite understandable. I will find it in my BRB and show them later thanks.

I don't want to cause a fracas over the Lhamean. It'd be super helpful and super fluffy at sub 1000 points so I'll try it. New list.

1x Lhamean in Venom w/ Splinter cannon 75

2x Kabalite Warriors 2 w/ Blasters in venom w/ Splinter Cannon 240

6x Reavers w/ Heatlance and Cluster Caltrops 146

then maybe a unit of Mandrakes to fill points.
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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Sat Jun 13 2015, 15:10

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:

I suggest reading the text again. Not having jink doesn't prevent you from snapshooting. It just prevents you getting a 4+ cover save.

"If the unit jinks, all models with this special rule gain a 4+ cover save until the start if their next Movement phase, but they can only fire Snap Shots until the end of their next turn."

It seems pretty clear to me that only models with the Jink rule suffer the penalty for jinking. Obviously something else could force you to snap shoot.

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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Mon Jun 15 2015, 13:37

well, my local group lets me play the 10. hq but I know you are perfectly nice and reasonable people that don't agree with that. So I won't dig into that. What I would sayis more about the missions you're playing then the army. the army lists people are offering you here seem good to me but the reality is dark eldar are terrible in kill points games and if that's what you're playing you're going to have a hard time winning. 40k is a game designed to be played for objectives more often than not. not only is it beneficial to Dark Eldar, but it's also just more fun to play that way I would suggest trying to convince some of your friends to try it.
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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Fri Jun 19 2015, 11:04

Thought I post after my game last night. I actually won and tabled the guy.
The mission was Emperor's Will. 500pts he was playing Grey Knights. His list was termie libby, a terminator squad with 2 halberds, a sword, and a psycannon, a strike squad with sword a halberd and Psycannon. My list was 1 Lhamean (I checked everyone at the shop was cool with it except one guy.) in a Venom with a splinter cannon. 2x 4 Kabalite warriors 1 w/Blaster in venom w/ Splinter Cannon. A six woman squad of wyches and... Haywire Scourges.
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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Fri Jun 19 2015, 11:18

Good job! Our armies hurt and pumish armies with low model count.
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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Fri Jun 19 2015, 11:37

Yeah, 20 shots into termies is hilarious. Also the Realspace Raiders Detachment is Legit. I made a few play errors such as forgetting the Venom's invulnerable save that might have made a difference.
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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Fri Jun 19 2015, 11:48

True. If they bring paladins the shoot them with dark light weapons and watch the two wound model die.
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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Fri Jun 19 2015, 13:53

Congratulations!
Why did you put only one Warrior squad in a Venom and only one Blaster?

I am curious to hear about your witches. How did they perform?

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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Fri Jun 19 2015, 15:06

Congratulations on the win.

Just for clarficiation:

Raven Cowl wrote:
2x 4 Kabalite warriors 1 w/Blaster in venom w/ Splinter Cannon.

This is 4 warriors +1 warrior with blaster = 5 Kabalite Warriors in total correct?

CptMetal wrote:
Congratulations!
Why did you put only one Warrior squad in a Venom and only one Blaster?

Because you can only fit 5 kabalite Warriors in a Venom and Kabalite warriors can only take one special weapon unless they are a unit of 20 then you can take 2 special weapons.

I think I might have miss understood your question, but if you look back at what he deployed it was 2x Kabalite Warriors with a blaster on venoms not just one squad.
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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Fri Jun 19 2015, 15:28

CurstAlchemist wrote:
Congratulations on the win.

Just for clarficiation:

Raven Cowl wrote:
2x 4 Kabalite warriors 1 w/Blaster in venom w/ Splinter Cannon.

This is 4 warriors +1 warrior with blaster = 5 Kabalite Warriors in total correct?

CptMetal wrote:
Congratulations!
Why did you put only one Warrior squad in a Venom and only one Blaster?

Because you can only fit 5 kabalite Warriors in a Venom and Kabalite warriors can only take one special weapon unless they are a unit of 20 then you can take 2 special weapons.

I think I might have miss understood your question, but if you look back at what he deployed it was 2x Kabalite Warriors with a blaster on venoms not just one squad.

Correct it is two squads kitted out the same way.
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PostSubject: Re: Dejected Over the Dark Kin.   Sat Jun 20 2015, 01:47

CptMetal wrote:
Congratulations!
Why did you put only one Warrior squad in a Venom and only one Blaster?

I am curious to hear about your witches. How did they perform?

Considering the Termies got them not great.
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