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Ornatecreature
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PostSubject: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 00:29

So since the lovely faq that I can't seem to find the same one you all have, if the huskblade only causes 1 wound that causes I.D, then the archon only gains one strength (since he only caused one wound).
Per the faq answer, has anyone else interpreted this as 1 strength per unsaved wound caused in a challenge? So even if he were to be fighting a lone guard sergeant if he causes 3 unsaved wounds he'd gain 3 strength?
What are your opinions?
Thanks my fellow archon!
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Ornatecreature
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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 00:41

In fact, the very wording of the soultrap seems to support/encourage this... So the huskblade has just become a nice piece of insurance in case we don't deal enough to stop us getting punched back...
Pardon the double post, on the mobile phone...
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Psylynt
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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 03:24

But if he kills a 3 wound model with a id attack from soul trap he only gets +1 st, since the character he killed is only rolling for that one wound that will instant kill him. One unsaved wound will infant kill.
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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 03:35

It doesn't say much about that though. Just per unsaved wound... Otherwise he'd still get the extra two from the instant death wouldn't he? So the faq seemed to deliberately state that it was only the +1 because he only caused 1 wound, even though it resulted in instant death...
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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 04:28

The faq asked the same question. Would he get 3 st from the 3 wounds or just one. They answer it as just one St. The reasoning is that it doesn't cause 3 wounds. Only one wound that causes instant death. So it's per unsaved wound.
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Psylynt
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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 04:36

I may be misinterpreting your question tho, we seem to have the same opinion but Are disagreeing about it laugh out loud. Maybe it's the husk blade I'm not thinking about.
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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 04:39

Kinda the combo. The huskblade is instant death, I think we're just not communicating the question. Haha.
And yeah. It's per unsaved wound. So it could go above and beyond a models profiled wounds...? That's the question I suppose, since nothing says it's limited
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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 04:41

Basically, if the archon caused 3 wounds to a 3 wound model, he would gain 3 st, but from the wording everywhere, if he caused 3 wounds to a single wound model, he would still gain 3st, for the unsaved wounds. Regardless of if it dies from the first...
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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 06:05

There's a new errata (new a few months ago) that specifically addresses this.

ID on a multi wound model gives only +1 strength when instand death'd (ID from huskblade or otherwise)
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Ornatecreature
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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 06:39

Yes, but the errata uses the example of causing 1 wound to a multi wound model. So more wounds could gain more strength? Look at the wording of both the codex entry and the errata. I can't see anything to contradict it...
I saw the point your on about, I'm asking if it's worded such that you essentially gain a strength for each unsaved wound, which is exactly what it says... Even if it goes above the characters profiled wounds, which nothing says it can't...
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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 09:08

I see the question you're asking, but you can't cause more wounds to a model than it has (I'm assuming we're talking here about an Archon fighting a solitary sergeant with no other models in the unit for excess wounds to spill over onto). The first unsaved wound on a sergeant kills them, ergo you haven't caused more unsaved wounds since he only has the one.


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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 09:46

The only way I can see to get more than one strength is if you happen to luck out and get any overflow wounds to hit another character
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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 10:33

Hmmm. But the question is what is an unsaved wound then?
You still can cause something like 3 unsaved wounds to a single wound model, as they may fail 3/5 saves or something. The point is that it just takes a single wound to kill the model.
But the text says you get a strength for every unsaved wound, of which you caused 3...
Am I actually making sense or just seeming silly? I don't know if I'm explaining it properly...
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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 11:55

You can only cause 1 'unsaved wound' to a model with 1 wound, regardless of how many successful rolls you made 'to wound' that weren't saved. It's a basic principle of the game.

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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 12:40

What if wound overflow in to a another ongoing challenge in a same combat?

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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 13:00

@Vasara wrote:
What if wound overflow in to a another ongoing challenge in a same combat?

I wasn't aware you could have two challenges ongoing in a single combat...

If those overspill onto another character though then you are causing additional unsaved wounds, open to debate i guess whether you'd call it 'in a challenge'. I probably wouldn't try to claim it myself.

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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 13:11

For it happen it needs two ongoing challenges and some other unit to charge in in bind those both challengies to same combat. Rare but possible.

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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 14:39

@Vasara wrote:
For it happen it needs two ongoing challenges and some other unit to charge in in bind those both challengies to same combat. Rare but possible.

Ah i see where you're coming from now, good point. Can pretty much guarantee GW never envisaged it!

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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 14:51

Ok I looked at it again. I believe since any unsaved wound caused by the husks cases instant death, you would only get one St. Since really those extra wounds are not really being saved against you cannot get a St from them. Instant death isn't causing more wounds it's just the one wound that if you do not save it, you remove your model.

If you read the question being asked it gives the same example of instant death on a three wound model from a model with soul trap. They asked would get 3 strength or just one. They answered just one per unsaved wound.

I understand how you could interpret that to be 3 st since you philosophically took 3 wounds from that model. But you really only took one wound that killed the model, essentially ignoring the wound pool. If the instant death rule said something like it does as many wounds as the model has left that cannot be saved against, you might have a better argument for it.
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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 15:44

The really messed up part is that, unless my locql club have missed a rule somewhere, instant death still gives you the full amount for combat resolution.
If that's wrong, could you tell me the brb page number?
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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 15:48

@nexs wrote:
The really messed up part is that, unless my locql club have missed a rule somewhere, instant death still gives you the full amount for combat resolution.
If that's wrong, could you tell me the brb page number?

No, that's correct.

Determine Assault Results wrote:
only the Wounds actually suffered by enemy models count (including all of the Wounds lost by models that have suffered Instant Death).

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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 16:39

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@nexs wrote:
The really messed up part is that, unless my locql club have missed a rule somewhere, instant death still gives you the full amount for combat resolution.
If that's wrong, could you tell me the brb page number?

No, that's correct.

Determine Assault Results wrote:
only the Wounds actually suffered by enemy models count (including all of the Wounds lost by models that have suffered Instant Death).

There's a third scenario here of course, which is that you cause 5 'unsaved' wounds, 1 of which causes instant death to a 3 wound model.

As I interpret that quote count, in this scenario you'd get +3 combat res for the wounds lost by the model that suffered instant death, rather than the 5 that were sat in the wound pool you couldn't use?

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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 16:45

Unless those wounds were able to overflow onto other models then they would be lost and would not count.

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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 18:41

That's determining assult results to see who won combat tho. Not the same as determining how many wounds a instant death attack does. I argue that it does one one wound. And that wound if goes unsaved causes instant death, not 2 wounds for one model, and 5 for another. I guess as you stated you use the models full wound pool to determine who won combat tho.
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PostSubject: Re: huskblade and soultrap?   Wed Jun 10 2015, 20:57

Related tangent: if a Succubus fails her first save against a S6 weapon and dies, how many wounds are counted toward the end of combat?

Ie, she fails one save, but had three wounds removed.

Until reading this thread I assumed three wounds were counted against combat resolution.
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