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 Fire Dragons in Raiders

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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Fire Dragons in Raiders   Tue Jun 09 2015, 00:08

Removing the idea of adding WWP Archons to these squads (cost too high), are these viable and how best to deploy them? Try and race across the table and risk getting shot (or even assaulted) for a turn or risk the scatter on a DS? Has anyone used them successfully? If so, how?
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Fire Dragons in Raiders   Tue Jun 09 2015, 00:17

I use them successfully all the time...usually with WWP archons with a blaster.

Still, Deep Strike is the preferable method. Mush has a nice article on how to use them to kill Knights. You have to be pretty cavalier about your DS distance, but I find a 'no balls no babies' approach to DS is the most profitable anyway.
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Fire Dragons in Raiders   Tue Jun 09 2015, 01:03

The problem with taking a WWP for each unit is that you are basically paying 95 points (min) to add to a 190 (inc raider) unit. That's 50% more cost, just to land a single target hit. Seems very expensive. I think at this point 2 Haywire Scourge units are more cost efficient and 45 points cheaper. This is especially true as I would only want the Fire Warriors from the Aspect formation, so would take 3 units.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Fire Dragons in Raiders   Tue Jun 09 2015, 01:08

However, the Scourges aren't capable of achieving rear armor with as much certainty as the WWP FDs, and they also can't circumvent a Knight's ion shield.
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Nariaklizhar
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PostSubject: Re: Fire Dragons in Raiders   Tue Jun 09 2015, 02:58

I use one unit in a raider with DL and ns and blarchon with wwp. The whole point is to be 6 inches away to pretty much destroy any vehicle. I get the rest of my anti tank from darklight usually. To me, its worth the extra price to garentee that kill shot. I like trueborn too, but I didn't ever bring an archon with them because they have that 18inch range, much more flexible. My experience though, fire dragons are much more reliable, and overall better. I always try to run 1 unit of 5 dragons, I think 3 units may be over kill, and not cost effective.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Fire Dragons in Raiders   Tue Jun 09 2015, 05:26

The WWP archon can even disembark immediately upon landing in order to separate from the unit (and potentially shoot at another vehicle?).
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Deamon
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PostSubject: Re: Fire Dragons in Raiders   Tue Jun 09 2015, 12:17

Use a HWG on the archon instead of a blaster and you'll save 10 pts.
I find the HWG much better than the blaster. True, it's useless against anything but vehicles but it strips HP much more efficiently than blaster. The WWP allow you to be within range anyway and if a walker charge you, you can still do something (I know FS have melta bombs but the Archon give you the option to charge something else on the next turn).

The WWP is essential because it guarantee you will be exactly where you want to be. It's much easier to get a shot at rear armors, it allows you to get close enough to deny cover saves from aegis lines and it also guarantee melta range. Better add 100 pts to a 190 pts squad to make sure they will get the job done than wasting 190 pts because of a bad scatter.

My real problem with this is that I must take another HQ to be my warlord (the FD and the Archon WILL die and you don't want to give Slay the Warlord that easily) so it has a much bigger impact on my list building choice than his point cost.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Fire Dragons in Raiders   Tue Jun 09 2015, 13:27

HG more reliably strips a HP, but I would rather gamble on more substantial damage like an explosion.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Fire Dragons in Raiders   Tue Jun 09 2015, 13:37

Jimsolo wrote:
HG more reliably strips a HP, but I would rather gamble on more substantial damage like an explosion.

It's a fair old gamble though. Even a BS7 Archon has less than 10% chance of exploding an AV12+ vehicle (unless open-topped). And if you've got a unit of Fire Dragons with you, they do the job much better anyway.

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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Fire Dragons in Raiders   Tue Jun 09 2015, 14:46

Blaster also makes him able to shoot infantry and not just go tank hunting with the HWG
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Fire Dragons in Raiders   Tue Jun 09 2015, 16:36

How about dropping the Raider, letting it scatter, disembarking the Dragons 6", running them (with a reroll from Fleet) and then shooting?  They still have 3+ armour and as they should almost definitely destroy the vehicle they are shooting at, should be able to reduce the fire coming back at them?  Anyone tried this?
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Fire Dragons in Raiders   Wed Jun 10 2015, 05:30

Nope.  Don't have enough Dragons for the formation. Sounds very effective though. It also retains potential to put paid to Imperial Knights.
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