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Tengu
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PostSubject: Having a rethink   Wed Jun 03 2015, 23:00

Just finished my exams and doing a bit of painting.

Im rethinking the whole idea of Dark Eldar...Im not sure I get on with them.

I found a big box of figures at the car boot; in them was a whole load of Black reach Orks.

Orks dont care if you cant paint.

Nor do they force you to strip them off with dettol before you start painting.

Orks enjoy converting, and dont fuss if its rough and ready.

So Im wondering if I should go back to my first love...which is green. alien

I have 40 Kabalites (kit bashes of regular and third ed which work well but require patience to get jut right.) and 20 wyches. I also have a few reavers and a raider. They just stand there and glower, like cats. I dont think they like me much.

Even the mandrakes are sulky.

Im wondering if I should turn to the Coven, they dont demand swanky paint jobs, and the more I chop up and alter, the happier they will be.

I know many of you dislike Coven, saying Dark Eldar are meant to be sleek and refined space elves, not embarrasing frankenstiens monsters, but hey, there is an option for all tastes and distastes in our broad minded city eh?

What do you think?

(At the moment I have 2 squads of 10 orks, 5 nobs and 3 deffkoptas....No warlord as yet...do you think thats enough for an Orky ally?)
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Having a rethink   Thu Jun 04 2015, 01:07

I love Covens. Hellraiser meets Frankenstein: what's not to love?
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: Having a rethink   Thu Jun 04 2015, 01:30

If you like Orks and conversion then Coven could be a great move. You could have a core of Orks turned into Grotesques.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Having a rethink   Thu Jun 04 2015, 03:38

Or really ripped wracks.

The hunchback, stooped appearance could make for some really Igor-y Wracks.
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Nariaklizhar
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PostSubject: Re: Having a rethink   Thu Jun 04 2015, 06:36

Orky grots could be very fluffy and look really cool. Btw, a lot of guys like coven more than regular kabals here on dark city, everyone is different. (At least that's what I've noticed since I've been here)
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Having a rethink   Thu Jun 04 2015, 16:33

@Tengu wrote:

I know many of you dislike Coven, saying Dark Eldar are meant to be sleek and refined space elves, not embarrasing frankenstiens monsters, but hey, there is an option for all tastes and distastes in our broad minded city eh?

I have no objections to the aesthetics of coven units, save perhaps for the break-dancing hunchback.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Having a rethink   Thu Jun 04 2015, 23:57

@The Shredder wrote:
@Tengu wrote:

I know many of you dislike Coven, saying Dark Eldar are meant to be sleek and refined space elves, not embarrasing frankenstiens monsters, but hey, there is an option for all tastes and distastes in our broad minded city eh?

I have no objections to the aesthetics of coven units, save perhaps for the break-dancing hunchback.

Huh? I don't think I've seen this one...
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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: Having a rethink   Fri Jun 05 2015, 08:07


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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Having a rethink   Fri Jun 05 2015, 10:49

Honestly Cover is really good choice for you.

Easy to Kit bash/modify
Dont need much paint skills
Quick and Dirty Paint jobs works Wonders with them
Play just as good as DE but a Completely different play style
Harlequins work AMAZING as Allies (more so than DE+Harlequins do) so If you like them thats an option
Work well with Eldar Allies (not so much compare to DE tho)
If you like Low Model Count Armies, its DE way of doing it


If you're going to play Orc I would for sure do one of the 2 Good Formations.

I have a friend that plays them extremely well, Able to move 9+ Inches turn one, then 9+ inches again then charge (Average 24" in 2 turns with Walking boys). Easily getting 2/3 of his army in Assault/Charge range for turn 3 with almost complete board control Smile His 3 main Hitting forces of Boys are 5++/5+ FnP with 90 bodies..... then there is Cans/other bigger baddies coming in the next turn, You cant remove that many Boys in 1 turn to make a Difference.

You Dont have to play that way, was just an Idea to see if you want to play Coven or Orcs.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Having a rethink   Fri Jun 05 2015, 13:02

Lol, which two do you think are the "good" ones? Personally I'm a fan of all of them except the Fleshcorps.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Having a rethink   Fri Jun 05 2015, 13:20

@Jimsolo wrote:
Lol, which two do you think are the "good" ones?  Personally I'm a fan of all of them except the Fleshcorps.

Was talking about the Orc Formations.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Having a rethink   Fri Jun 05 2015, 13:21

@Jimsolo wrote:
Lol, which two do you think are the "good" ones?  Personally I'm a fan of all of them except the Fleshcorps.

I must be the only one who actually likes Fleshcorps. Razz
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Having a rethink   Fri Jun 05 2015, 13:53

@The Shredder wrote:
@Jimsolo wrote:
Lol, which two do you think are the "good" ones?  Personally I'm a fan of all of them except the Fleshcorps.

I must be the only one who actually likes Fleshcorps. Razz

Um... yeah most likely the ONLY one lol!

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Having a rethink   Fri Jun 05 2015, 22:49

I'm not going to complain about including one in a Carnival, but outside that I don't love them.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Having a rethink   Fri Jun 05 2015, 22:58

@Jimsolo wrote:
I'm not going to complain about including one in a Carnival, but outside that I don't love them.

Well, they're certainly not something I'd recommend for a tournament list. Wink

The bonuses could definitely be better - given that it's pretty restrictive and that many comparable formations offer *much* more. And, of course, it doesn't help that Wracks are bad to begin with.

But, despite all that, I still find myself liking the formation. Possibly I like the idea more than the actual execution (Wracks at least have nice models, and I like using them for that if nothing else).

Also, it's probably the formation that best matches my standard lists (MSU, fast, transport-heavy), whilst also allowing me a Haemonculus Warlord and some fun coven units to play around with.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Having a rethink   Sat Jun 06 2015, 07:01

@The Shredder wrote:
@Jimsolo wrote:
I'm not going to complain about including one in a Carnival, but outside that I don't love them.

Well, they're certainly not something I'd recommend for a tournament list. Wink

The bonuses could definitely be better - given that it's pretty restrictive and that many comparable formations offer *much* more. And, of course, it doesn't help that Wracks are bad to begin with.

But, despite all that, I still find myself liking the formation. Possibly I like the idea more than the actual execution (Wracks at least have nice models, and I like using them for that if nothing else).

Also, it's probably the formation that best matches my standard lists (MSU, fast, transport-heavy), whilst also allowing me a Haemonculus Warlord and some fun coven units to play around with.


Points of Points Wrack are trash, with a not so good Formation just makes be never wanting to use them.

I never said You cant use wracks and still win with them, just Points for Points in 7th ed They arnt worth it.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Having a rethink   Sat Jun 06 2015, 10:00

Oh, I quite agree - Wracks are awful in this edition. Warriors are cheaper and out-shoot them (as well as being troops), whilst their fellow Grotesque elites are far more durable and will perform much better in combat. They never should have stayed as Elites, the poison rules screw them over and 2/3 of their ranged weapons are abysmal. Worse still, they're stuck with 1/5 special weapons - as elites, you'd think they'd have a better ratio - like the 3/5, 4/5 or even 5/5 that virtualy every other elite in the game enjoys. But I guess that ran the risk of making them worth a damn.

And, really, it's not like Haemonculi are any better. Their support abilities and combat skills are so pitiful that they're basically nothing more than a 70pt tax to take a formation or WWP (though, Lhamaeans aside, it's not like our other HQs are an improvement).


In all honesty, I really don't know why I like Fleshcorps so much. And yet, they're a formation I keep coming back to anyway. Embarassed
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Having a rethink   Sat Jun 06 2015, 10:56

For wracks to be useful as a Elite, EACH Wrack should be able to get a special weapon, Or at least 4 of them, like Trueborns.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Having a rethink   Sat Jun 06 2015, 11:07

@amishprn86 wrote:
For wracks to be useful as a Elite, EACH Wrack should be able to get a special weapon, Or at least 4 of them, like Trueborns.

Agreed.

But, I also think their special weapons need to be more useful.

Ossefactors are alright (though I think Haemonculi should be able to purchase them).

However, Liquifiers really need to go back to their old cost and S4. And, Hexrifles really need a buff of some kind - maybe AP2 as standard? Or Shred? Perhaps even make them fire a number of times equal to the model's Attack characteristic? As it stands, they're just pitiful weapons.


The other thing I'd say is that the current poison rules seem a bit bonkers. Wracks, haemonculi and other S3 units can't get rerolls against T4 even with Furious Charge. Compare that to Grotesques (without FC).

We go from S3 (wounds MEQ on 4s, no rerolls), to S4 (wounds MEQ on 4s, no rerolls), to S5 (wounds MEQ on 3s, with rerolls). So, with that one extra strength, we go a 1/2 chance to wound (no different to S3) to a 8/9 chance to wound. This just seems barmy to be. I really think we need to go back to getting rerolls if your strength is equal to your target's toughness - so that we don't have this ridiculous leap in power.
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