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Pirate Prince
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PostSubject: Duke Sliscus   Sun May 24 2015, 17:17

Hi everyone, im new here, but a big Dark Eldar fan (and all things piratical really). My favourite character is the Duke himself (RIP) and I have often heard the theory that the duke is the father of the second best of the WH40k space pirates, Prince Yriel. I was just wondering what you guys think of this theory?

Thanks,

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Sun May 24 2015, 18:29

Never heard it. That'd be funny, since my homemade Archon claims to be his Trueborn son. It'd be real funny if both rumors were true and Yriel was his half-brother!
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Sun May 24 2015, 19:07

Its a quite interesting theory tbh, but I don't think that enough people are DE fans to pay attention to it.

The theory is based on the fact that it is frequently mentioned in Yriels character description that his origins are unknown and that he is a Bastard. Having dark elder in his blood would explain his skill at Naval warfare and his extreme arrogance.

As for your own Archon, that sounds really cool, the duke was one of the most interesting characters the DE had and its no secret that he was a hit with the Wyches lol
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Mon May 25 2015, 15:01

This is really interesting. It would be fun if GW made something like that official.

Maybe Sliscus will be in the new Iyanden supplement?
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Mon May 25 2015, 15:28

Is there any reliable reason to think there will BE a new Iyanden supplement?
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Mon May 25 2015, 15:42

@Pirate Prince wrote:
Having dark elder in his blood would explain his skill at Naval warfare and his extreme arrogance.

Sorry, I don't quite understand this part. Genetics would have nothing to do with how he has trained and the career path he chose.

Plus the 4th Edition Eldar codex makes direct reference to him being a descendent of the ghost house of Ulthanash, so it seems more likely that he is a bastard by way of a member of Ulthanesh and another Eldar rather than any mixing with Commorites.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Mon May 25 2015, 17:09

Both skill and temper are frequently attributed to being family traits both in real life and fiction of all forms.  From a story perspective it makes perfect sense, even if you don't believe that a predisposition to a certain temperament or aptitude for a certain skill set are hereditary--which they certainly are.

Furthermore, these are alien genes we're talking about, so qualities like favorite show tune or preference between boxers and briefs can be genetic as far as we know. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Mon May 25 2015, 17:29

I think that in the Iyanden supplement it is mentioned that Yriel may have "darker origins" (strongly implying Commorragh). The fact he is a Bastard Prince of Ghost House Ulthanash is also very true, exactly how a princess of House Ulthanash ended up in Sliscus' hands is another topic for debate however.

The elder genetics have also been stated before as being more than simply DNA from the parents, with the implication being some psychic connection between an elder and their parents. This would likely result in a high chance of a parents skill set being transferred.

Both Sliscus and Yriel are stated as master naval taticians, so the theory has some grounding here, but as always GW wants to leave these things to the imagination.
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Mon May 25 2015, 19:21

Have to look into this some more. A lot of their "left to the imagination" is so blatant they might as well just spell it out. Tau brainwashing, Drazhar being a Phoenix Lord, that stuff is so heavily implied you have to wear blinders not to see it.
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Mon May 25 2015, 19:30

@Pirate Prince wrote:
Both Sliscus and Yriel are stated as master naval taticians, so the theory has some grounding here,

Nope, sorry, but I just don't see it.
Hereditary aptitude usually comes from upbringing, not genetics. A child raised amongst pirates might very well make a very good one, and a child raised amongst strategists might excel at the same, but if we're talking about a child who would have had little to no contact with Sliscus, I can't see him being "just as good".
And nowhere does the fluff mention that his descent from Ulthanesh is from a woman - it might very well be a male ancestor, which would more neatly explain why he was still around.
A female having Yriel would mean Ulthanesh would still be alive in some capacity even if its just one man. There would be a solid heir regardless.
But a male ancestor having offspring with a non-house member would more neatly explain why he wasn't a full member of the house and why he had to prove himself in order to accepted.

Sorry to argue, but the Yriel/Sliscus hypothesis just doesn't in my eyes have legs to stand on beyond wishful fan-ficting. Links are being drawn simply because two men of the same species just happen to be good and organizing their BFG minis in interesting ways.
This is the stage where "dark background" could mean absolutely anything, and not necessarily anything to do with Commoragh. "Dark origins" could mean an ancestor was a chaos worshipper, or in some way causal of the Fall, or Human! Or SQUAT!
We can't just assume that every mention of the word "dark" automatically means Commoragh is involved. Hell, if thats the case then I present the theory that the Watchers in the Dark are in some way responsible. Maybe they had an orgy with an Ulthanesh Princess - the 1000 maniacs wrote of conception that gave us first Freddy Krueger an then Prince Yriel.


Does the Yriel/Slicus theory have ANYTHING other than a line about "dark origins" and the fact that they're both good at the same job?
(Because I name a few humans good at flying spaceships too)
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Mngwa
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Mon May 25 2015, 19:44

@Squidmaster wrote:
Does the Yriel/Slicus theory have ANYTHING other than a line about "dark origins" and the fact that they're both good at the same job?

Iyanden was saved by Dark Eldar from an Ork invasion.
( http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Waaagh!_Rekkfist )

All I could think of!
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Mon May 25 2015, 21:53

No need to apologise, the whole point of this topic was to get an idea of what other people think about this theory Smile , there are certainly points for and against this theory, however I have to ask how Ulthanash would have to be alive in some capacity in order for their to be a female in House Ulthanash?
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Mon May 25 2015, 22:18

Your point about the house of Ulthanesh holds much more water than the genetics angle.

Is there any source in the fluff indicating Eldar track lineages patrilineally as opposed to matrilineally or non gender specifically?
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Tue May 26 2015, 09:17

I imagine there's no fluff material of exactly how family lines are traced.

My point was though, that it makes more sense to me that someone who had to prove their worth before being accepted the family would have started from outside of it. Maybe I'm basing it on the human idea that a child tends to stay with the mother, and therefore it makes sense that a child grew up with that mother rather than within Ulthanesh, but knew his lineage well enough to want to be elevated to what was presumably a higher house.

On @Mngwa's point, I'm afraid to say the Dark Eldar aiding Iyanden against Waaagh!!! Rekkfist doesn;t quite help either. It was surprisingly made clear that the Commorites who came to Iyanden's aid were the Kabal of the Wraithkind and the Cult of the Flayed Hand (due to the amusing descent into angst and necromancy). There is no reference to the involvement of the Sky Serpents.
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Tue May 26 2015, 11:21

Suppose this theory is like most, it can neither be conclusively proved or disproved, its still a fun and interesting theory nonetheless Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Tue May 26 2015, 12:19

@Squidmaster wrote:
On @Mngwa's point, I'm afraid to say the Dark Eldar aiding Iyanden against Waaagh!!! Rekkfist doesn;t quite help either. It was surprisingly made clear that the Commorites who came to Iyanden's aid were the  Kabal of the Wraithkind and the Cult of the Flayed Hand (due to the amusing descent into angst and necromancy). There is no reference to the involvement of the Sky Serpents.

It's not something that labels Yriel as a Commorrite or Sky Serpent, it is just another thing that connects his fluff with Dark Eldar, that's all.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Tue May 26 2015, 16:38

"Valedor" hints that there are family ties between Yriel and a Commorite (the Archon Vect sent is quite amused about this specific topic and mocks Yriel a few times)
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Tue May 26 2015, 23:48

@Squidmaster wrote:
@Pirate Prince wrote:
Both Sliscus and Yriel are stated as master naval taticians, so the theory has some grounding here,

Nope, sorry, but I just don't see it.
Hereditary aptitude usually comes from upbringing, not genetics. A child raised amongst pirates might very well make a very good one, and a child raised amongst strategists might excel at the same, but if we're talking about a child who would have had little to no contact with Sliscus, I can't see him being "just as good".
And nowhere does the fluff mention that his descent from Ulthanesh is from a woman - it might very well be a male ancestor, which would more neatly explain why he was still around.
A female having Yriel would mean Ulthanesh would still be alive in some capacity even if its just one man. There would be a solid heir regardless.
But a male ancestor having offspring with a non-house member would more neatly explain why he wasn't a full member of the house and why he had to prove himself in order to accepted.

Sorry to argue, but the Yriel/Sliscus hypothesis just doesn't in my eyes have legs to stand on beyond wishful fan-ficting. Links are being drawn simply because two men of the same species just happen to be good and organizing their BFG minis in interesting ways.
This is the stage where "dark background" could mean absolutely anything, and not necessarily anything to do with Commoragh. "Dark origins" could mean an ancestor was a chaos worshipper, or in some way causal of the Fall, or Human! Or SQUAT!
We can't just assume that every mention of the word "dark" automatically means Commoragh is involved. Hell, if thats the case then I present the theory that the Watchers in the Dark are in some way responsible. Maybe they had an orgy with an Ulthanesh Princess - the 1000 maniacs wrote of conception that gave us first Freddy Krueger an then Prince Yriel.


Does the Yriel/Slicus theory have ANYTHING other than a line about "dark origins" and the fact that they're both good at the same job?
(Because I name a few humans good at flying spaceships too)

Sorry. But as a biochemist with a more than passing understanding of genetics, I have to throw the bs flag. The nature vs nurture argument is still far from decided. Tendencies towards violence, unwillingness to follow authority, intelligence, and a willingness to take risks are all things offspring can inherit from its parent, all things that our two space elf pirates share. Again, I must stress TENDENCY, not certainty.
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Wed May 27 2015, 09:50

"Sorry to argue, but the Yriel/Sliscus hypothesis just doesn't in my eyes have legs to stand on beyond wishful fan-ficting. Links are being drawn simply because two men of the same species just happen to be good and organizing their BFG minis in interesting ways.
This is the stage where "dark background" could mean absolutely anything, and not necessarily anything to do with Commoragh. "Dark origins" could mean an ancestor was a chaos worshipper, or in some way causal of the Fall, or Human! Or SQUAT!
We can't just assume that every mention of the word "dark" automatically means Commoragh is involved. Hell, if thats the case then I present the theory that the Watchers in the Dark are in some way responsible. Maybe they had an orgy with an Ulthanesh Princess - the 1000 maniacs wrote of conception that gave us first Freddy Krueger an then Prince Yriel."

Originally I only half read this comment, but looking back I have realised how ridiculous this statement is. Firstly, Yriel is most defiantly Eldar and not a Hybrid, Yriel is too young to be sired by someone from before the fall and the only Chaos worshipping Eldar I know Is a commorite himself (The dark eldar from the soul drinkers series). In the context of any Eldars character page, its safe to assume that "dark" refers to commoragh. This leaves only 3 options fro yreils sire;

An Exile/outcast

An Iyanden commoner who died before Yreils birth,

A Commorite


Last edited by Pirate Prince on Wed May 27 2015, 10:11; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Bad computer)
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Wed May 27 2015, 11:12

Got to reread valedor but I think I can remember the Archon talking about Yriels Commorite Mother
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Wed May 27 2015, 17:53

Yriel is from a noble family. If we go from that then we would say everyone is each others father. Other than that I have to say there is nothing relating the two together.

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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Thu May 28 2015, 01:19

Although ive not yet read Valedor, surely Yriel cant have a commorite mother? The gestation period is years, that would mean he would have to of been born in Commorragh and hence not provided with a soulstone at brirth. He would also of had to be rescued from commoragh by Iyanders surely?
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Thu May 28 2015, 01:32

Is it ever stated that his father was never a Corsair? Maybe his father sired Yriel by a Commorite Corsair and later took the child to be raised on the craftworld...

Sorry if I said something stupid as I have very little knowledge of Yriel's Lore.
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Thu May 28 2015, 02:11

Who says he was born in Commorragh? His mom might have been a corsair who shagged his dad when she was in port or what have you near Iyanden. Or she if she was a defector, he could well have been born on the Craftworld.
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PostSubject: Re: Duke Sliscus   Thu May 28 2015, 02:44

@Jimsolo wrote:
Who says he was born in Commorragh?  His mom might have been a corsair who shagged his dad when she was in port or what have you near Iyanden.

This was actually what I was trying to say and apparently failed to clearly say.
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