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 Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?

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HWG on Sybarites Yes/No?
Yes
46%
 46% [ 22 ]
No
40%
 40% [ 19 ]
Never thought about it
14%
 14% [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 48
 

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Fri May 22 2015, 23:52

HWG on Syberites is... costly for a Syberite IMO. But its something Ive been thinking about.

For 15pts more you get +1 LD, HWG and a Character (Some players like this, some dont).

But the Purpose of this is to Have Haywire spread out for cheap. If you have 6 Warrior Groups (in Boats or Venoms w.e you want) You can spend 90pts for 6 HWG's.

Have you tired this? DO you like this? What do you think?


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Its_Rumble
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Sat May 23 2015, 01:19

I prefer to streamline my warriors in venoms to a meager 105 points. 5 warriors and dual cannons that is it. My intention for those units is to score and kill infantry and that is it. This is just my playstyle but I am sure it will work especially against a leafblower list. I partially do this also because I am trying to fit a high point formation into the list.

Something that has affected my decision based off of the games I have played is that once I tell my opponent that I have an anti tank weapon in my 5 man unit of warriors they suddenly become worth shooting at. Since I have stopped putting anything in those units they generally go ignored and are able to score when it is important. Why bother shooting a squad of space marines at 5 warriors when you can shoot at a venom and make it jink! It's the ork grot syndrome I guess, a couple ork players I have played say that grots win them games because no one bothers shooting at them until it is too late. Obviously this is probably going too in depth into the whole thing, but hey whatever! I tend to focus on player manipulation when it comes to decisions like that.

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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Sat May 23 2015, 01:52

Since I tried them, I never leave home without them. They are awesome when you face mech threat. Your Wire squad goes from 1 potentiel HP per turn to 3 (blaster, thrown grenade and assault)

They add much needed AT to a DE list. The only reason I don't use them is if I need a few extra point to squeeze an extra squad.

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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Sat May 23 2015, 02:10

@Its_Rumble wrote:
I prefer to streamline my warriors in venoms to a meager 105 points. 5 warriors and dual cannons that is it. My intention for those units is to score and kill infantry and that is it. This is just my playstyle but I am sure it will work especially against a leafblower list. I partially do this also because I am trying to fit a high point formation into the list.

Something that has affected my decision based off of the games I have played is that once I tell my opponent that I have an anti tank weapon in my 5 man unit of warriors they suddenly become worth shooting at. Since I have stopped putting anything in those units they generally go ignored and are able to score when it is important. Why bother shooting a squad of space marines at 5 warriors when you can shoot at a venom and make it jink! It's the ork grot syndrome I guess, a couple ork players I have played say that grots win them games because no one bothers shooting at them until it is too late. Obviously this is probably going too in depth into the whole thing, but hey whatever! I tend to focus on player manipulation when it comes to decisions like that.

The problem is, the players in my area are all Highly Competitive, they know to ignore things that dont hurt them, If I have venoms and 5 poison weapons in them, They will do 1 of 2 things, Either Focus them and Make ALL of them jink, then try to kill, or they will completely ignore them, The difference is, can my Poison hurt them or not.

Now lets say I have Ravagers, with Blasterborns, then Raiders/venoms with 5mans with Haywire.

Now instead of 1-2 Threats on the Board, Everythnig is a threat at all times.

Yes it is 90-120pts more, that is 1 unit of 5 warriors w/ Raider or Venom less in my list.

But Im already sitting on 5 Venoms, 6 Raiders and  Ravagers already. 1 Less venom Might be worth it to have more Threat and more answers to things.

It depends on your meta mostly.

At my Local, Venoms arnt as good, I get more Out of Gun Boats than venom spam.

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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Sat May 23 2015, 02:31

If the players in your community are competitive enough to know what to do then why bother spending the points on the warriors if they aren't going to be useful? An 8" range on a grenade is not threatening when your venoms get downed at the edges of the table. Jinking isn't a bad thing, with a 30" movement a venom can remake the table dynamic very fast.

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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Sat May 23 2015, 02:43

@Its_Rumble wrote:
If the players in your community are competitive enough to know what to do then why bother spending the points on the warriors if they aren't going to be useful? An 8" range on a grenade is not threatening when your venoms get downed at the edges of the table. Jinking isn't a bad thing, with a 30" movement a venom can remake the table dynamic very fast.

Just b.c someone is a good player doesnt mean I can NOT take useful tools b.c Im SCARED they will die.

If that is the Case I wouldnt play DE and just play Eldar or Stupid Deathstar Bikes with Invis Grav centurions.

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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Sat May 23 2015, 04:50

Too expensive. Archon Nancy told me to "Just say 'no' to Sybarites."
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Sat May 23 2015, 06:56

I loved them the last game. Even for ten men Raider squads. It makes them much more versatile and I often had the problem with one last Hull point I needed to strip of a tank. Not a problem anymore.

BTW how do I wote using a smartphone?

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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Sat May 23 2015, 20:08

Sybarite upgrade costs 15 pts and it includes hwg. Just like venoms are 65 pts. Always.

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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Sat May 23 2015, 21:07

@CptMetal wrote:
I loved them the last game. Even for ten men Raider squads. It makes them much more versatile and I often had the problem with one last Hull point I needed to strip of a tank. Not a problem anymore.

BTW how do I wote using a smartphone?

I cant use my smart phone to make comments if that is what your asking, IDK lol.

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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Sun May 24 2015, 21:05

So resualts so far are 8 yes and 9 no.

It looks like its close to 50/50 So... I will play the next 3-4 games with them and let you guys know.

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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Mon May 25 2015, 00:04

Are you adding a Blaster to each squad or taking the HWG Sybarite in lieu of a Blaster? If both, then the Warrior squad gets pretty pricey for a five man troop unit. But it can theoretically allow the squad to take off three hull points in one turn if they get lucky with their rolls.
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Mon May 25 2015, 03:15

I haven't tried it, though I've found Harlequins with haywire grenades to be extremely effective, so I presume it could work with Sybarites too.
I think it's better with a ten man Raider squad, but even then, yeah, the points start to add up. I have reservations about effectively spending 15 points for just haywire grenades. I feel like unless you're desperate for anti-tank, it's probably not worth it unless the Sybarite is serving some other purpose as well. Which isn't impossible - I am not categorically opposed to Sybarites.

Again, I haven't tried it, so this is all musings and theory on my part.

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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Mon May 25 2015, 14:34

This isn't something I'd considered before, but now you've mentioned it I'm tempted to try it. Granted, it's a little pricey and isn't the most efficient way to spend your points, but efficiency isn't everything. It doesn't matter how efficient your splinter weapons are if what you need is a little extra AT clout! That bit of extra versatility helps with the whole 'attack is the best form of defence' strategy too, since you can draw attention away from other units by providing a threat across the whole board.

In fact, I'd say that versatility is something that's often overlooked for Dark Eldar. We're more efficient in terms of bang for your buck when our units are specialised, but the ability to strip that last hull point can be game changing.

(The extra LD is handy too: my guys get pinned after their ride is wrecked A LOT)
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Mon May 25 2015, 16:11

Ok, so thinking more about Sybarites:

-They provide a Ld boost the unit, which can be helpful.
-If you're running a freakshow list, they can take phantasm launchers. If you want to use soulfright weapons at all (which is a pretty big "if") this is a better choice than a torment launcher, but not as good as a phantasm launcher on an Archon, and how many of these were you planning on bringing anyway?
-Half of the rules gained from Power From Pain only benefit us in assaults. A melee Sybarite leading a late game charge could probably do something.
-Pointswise, this will get very expensive very quickly, and spending a lot of points to maybe "probably do something" seems like not the plan. All shall tremble before my 58 point Sybarite! (Haywire grenades, phantasm launcher, agonizer.)

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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Mon May 25 2015, 19:52

Sy... ber... ite?

What is this Sy-ber-ite you speak of?
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Mon May 25 2015, 20:38

@The Shredder wrote:
Sy... ber... ite?

What is this Sy-ber-ite you speak of?


lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Wed May 27 2015, 11:27

15 points for a haywire. That gets expensive with numerous troops. True leadership 9 but still. Fluff wise I just say none have earned by archon's trust.
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Wed May 27 2015, 11:31

I will classify my lieutenants in three categories: untrusted, trusted, and completely trusted. Promotion to the last category is only done posthumously.
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Wed May 27 2015, 11:57

I am.more likely to have a Dracon than a sybrite. Simply because you can have a Dracon swinging with 4 attacks, 5 on the charge with agoniser is armed correctly and you care enough lol.

What do you think about dracons with haywire?
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Wed May 27 2015, 12:40

I would never take a Dracon to begin with. Ever.

They cost the full 10pts, but don't get the +1Ld other sergeants do. So, all I'm getting is +1A in a unit that I don't want in combat to begin with.

If they were 5pts, like they were in the previous book IIRC, then I might consider taking one with Haywire grenades in a blasterborn squad. But then I'd also have to start taking blasterborn again...
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Wed May 27 2015, 20:17

I never took Sybarites much before, but Im really wanting to try it, Im playing a few games tomorrow will let you know.

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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Tue Jul 14 2015, 00:24

3rd place at the BAO this last weekend was a Eldar/DE combo that took a more-than-minimal DE CAD that did NOT include a WWP HQ, but DID include 2 warrior squads with sybarites and haywire grenade (but no blaster, as far as I can tell).

I have to think this through (and intend to test it). The ability to get out and charge to double up on haywire for a turn seems pretty compelling to me. The extra range for scourge haywire, although nice, is seriously mitigated by how squishy they are. Being loaded in a venom that has jink / invuln seems like it might be a much more reliable way of keeping the haywire on the board long enough for it to be useful at least once if not more than once.
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Tue Jul 14 2015, 13:33

I'd never take a Sybarite .... so I guess my answer is no? Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire Grenades On Sybarite, To do or Not to?   Tue Jul 14 2015, 19:50

Remember the threat bubble of the hw sybarite is 14" and not 6 when inside a venom (8+6 for disembarking). Somerhing to consider?
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