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 Scourges or Trueborn

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Nariaklizhar
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PostSubject: Scourges or Trueborn   Mon May 18 2015, 20:25

If one needed to add more blasters to their army, and the strategy would be to deepstrike them, would it be better to field scourges with blasters for 140pts or Trueborn with blasters in a raider for 175pts?

The raider gives you an extra dark lance and the raider can jink. It can also be given night shields to be a full 50pts more expensive than the scourges. Which would you choose and why?

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shadowseercB
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges or Trueborn   Mon May 18 2015, 20:38

Trueborn, 4 blasters in a venom.  180 points that gives  more survivability plus the vehicle can fire 12 poison  shots at a different target if need be.

Scourge can have haywire shots or heat lances.  4+ save 6++.

Scourge are more likely to bust a tank.  True born are a more flexible unit.

I choose both.
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges or Trueborn   Mon May 18 2015, 20:45

I tend to take a mix of both. Usually two blaster born units. One in Venom and one in a wwp raider. Then a u it of haywire scourges. That gives you lots of options.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges or Trueborn   Mon May 18 2015, 23:22

Trueborn in a Venom.
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SaturdayNightWrist
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges or Trueborn   Tue May 19 2015, 00:31

I'm a big fan of Alpha Striking, or the idea that "a good offense is the best defense" so will generally lean towards scourges because they have more chance of complety destroying there target.
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tokendeadguy
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges or Trueborn   Tue May 19 2015, 01:28

I don't like taking blasters on scourges, there's too much risk in trying to deepstrike close enough to an enemy to balance being in range and risking a mishap. Always running 3-4 HWB on my scourges so i have wiggle room. That and HWB are far more effective at wrecking a russ than blasters.

If i had to choose one or the other, I would go with the blasterborn in a venom. Deepstrike, 4+ cover, 5+ invul save, 30" move; 4, S8 AP2 shots; 12 poisoned. 12" alpha strike range, 36" standoff.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges or Trueborn   Tue May 19 2015, 05:15

By the way, is cover valid against Haywire Blaster? Not against the S4 got, but against the Haywire effect...?
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Ispa
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges or Trueborn   Tue May 19 2015, 05:55

@CptMetal wrote:
By the way, is cover valid against Haywire Blaster? Not against the S4 got, but against the Haywire effect...?



i do not see why not. Haywire is basically 2+ poison but against AV

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges or Trueborn   Tue May 19 2015, 06:30

There is cover against poison. But if there isn't against the Haywire effect, they are even better than I thought. Perfect suited to blast him out of cover!
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges or Trueborn   Tue May 19 2015, 10:22

Of course you get cover against a Haywire shot. Why wouldn't you? It's just a gun.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges or Trueborn   Tue May 19 2015, 10:53

Against the Haywire effect too?
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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges or Trueborn   Tue May 19 2015, 11:34

Haywire effect is instead of Strenght vs AV. so why not. You get cover normaly against losing Hp if criteria of cover is met.

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kidfist0
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges or Trueborn   Tue May 19 2015, 12:26

i can see the argument via RAW.

but i cant see how it can be justified that a gun can shoot at a vehicle through cover, the projectile itself hits the cover, and yet the magic haywire effect of the projectile still gets through?

i would feel like a cheesemonger trying to argue haywire shots ignore cover.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges or Trueborn   Tue May 19 2015, 12:55

I would feel that too, but a comment here got me thinking. What's the rule text anyway? I don't have mine at hand. Have to have a look at it although I own the German version.
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges or Trueborn   Tue May 19 2015, 13:19

You don't make a save against a "type" of effect. You roll against the result, i.e. Penetrate or Glance. Pg37 BRB.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges or Trueborn   Tue May 19 2015, 14:25

@Hellstrom wrote:
You don't make a save against a "type" of effect.  You roll against the result, i.e. Penetrate or Glance.  Pg37 BRB.

This ^^. This was also the argument on why vehicles did not receive saves against grav weapons, as grav weapons do not glance or pen but instead inflict an automatic damage result.

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges or Trueborn   Tue May 19 2015, 15:20

So cover save against Haywire but not against grav weapons? That's kind of unfair...
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges or Trueborn   Tue May 19 2015, 15:32

@CptMetal wrote:
So cover save against Haywire but not against grav weapons? That's kind of unfair...

It used to be that way but the 7e rules specifically allow saves vs grav (although they rather lazily did not bother addressing the rules issue that caused the problem in the first place).

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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges or Trueborn   Thu May 21 2015, 14:24

Depends on the roles in your army. If you have a lot of tank busters already, trueborn, they can be used for both tank busting and infantry busting....mainly heavy infantry busting. Scourges can do both as well, but with the addition of a vehicle you are looking at morn protection.
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Aroban
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges or Trueborn   Thu May 21 2015, 17:24

I am personally disappointed with the performance of my Scourge. Almost never can they earn their points due to their bad survivability: 4+ Armour combined with fnp let's you think they can take some hits, but I experienced that 1. They have to make a lot of these rolls because my enemy prioritizes them and their Toughness is just , meaning almost eveverything wounds on 2+/3+ and 2. The 4+ is just so unreliable as a coin flip, Sometimes they all die, Sometimes they survive a bit - how to make strategy with that? To me I expect them to have a short lifetime of 1-2 turns.

Now I think the trueborn in transport are the better choice. Jinking raider has to be destroyed first to damage the, and other than that I think blaster is the best choice out of hahaywire, heat Lance and blaster.

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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges or Trueborn   Thu May 21 2015, 17:34

I see them as a deadline unit. I look at them an say, drop it and pop a higher point. Then hope they survive. Now trueborn do better.
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TheNamelessArchon
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges or Trueborn   Fri May 29 2015, 03:02

I think the way haywire works is like this. You got your haywire blaster s4 ap4/ haywire. so I make my hit and I roll to pen like normal. the best I can do is glance av10 And you get your cover save for that. Glance or not the haywire effect goes off on the hit. You do not get a cover save to avoid a hit.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges or Trueborn   Fri May 29 2015, 07:02

You roll for the Haywire effect instead of rolling to penetrate.

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