HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityFAQUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Optimum Scourge Loadouts

Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
AuthorMessage
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
avatar

Posts : 7199
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Wed May 20 2015, 12:08

It's actually 33.33% chance to inflict a Hull Point on an AV12+ vehicle with no save. That goes up to 44.44% for AV11 and 55.55% for AV10.

It's still pretty poor for it's cost. I actually prefer to use them against heavy infantry rather than vehicles.

_________________

You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
CptMetal
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2934
Join date : 2015-03-03
Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Wed May 20 2015, 14:51

Mine did a very good job last game. Killing everything they shot at or at least making it inefficient for one round.
Back to top Go down
JackKnife01
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 358
Join date : 2013-11-16
Location : Planning my next attack.

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Wed May 20 2015, 16:11

I have 5 count heat lance squad and 5 count haywire squad. Heat lances do so well. They came in, killed a knight, the knight landed on them and three survived. Also, haywire is good at general tank hunting. I use my heat lances for tanks and teqs as was said.
Back to top Go down
Myrvn
Sybarite


Posts : 379
Join date : 2012-08-05

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Thu May 21 2015, 16:42

While counter to the philosophy of maximizing heavy/special weapons, has anyone tried 8-10 Scourge with just Carbines? It would be dedicated anti-infantry. It isn't something DE usually need, but they seem effective for that role.
Back to top Go down
JackKnife01
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 358
Join date : 2013-11-16
Location : Planning my next attack.

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Thu May 21 2015, 16:58

Why do just carbines? Why not 10 and 4 have splinter cannons? Same range if they move, more shots. 34 poison shots total.
Back to top Go down
Deamon
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 254
Join date : 2012-05-09
Location : Drummondville

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Thu May 21 2015, 16:59

A bunch of Scourges with shardcarbine can munch through infantry. But like you pointed other things can do it just as well with greater survivability than them.
Back to top Go down
mightydoughnut
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 247
Join date : 2015-05-06

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Thu May 21 2015, 17:04

Quote :
Why do just carbines? Why not 10 and 4 have splinter cannons? Same range if they move, more shots. 34 poison shots total.

Cause it costs a Venom (5 points short) to fully kit out 4 Splinter Cannons. Very Happy Myrvyn, you answered yourself to why nobody plays 10-man Shardcarabine Scourges. Such a squad costs 160 points, which is two Venoms and 30 points free for other stuff, at only 6 more shots. This is the same problem as with Hellions: we just have stuff that does that better. At 165 points you have a 10 man Kabalites squad in a Raider with 20 Twin-Linked shots, 3 Disintegrator Shots and 3+ Jink, so that's that.

_________________
http://warlockpurple.tumblr.com - my wargaming blog
Back to top Go down
http://www.warlockpurple.tumblr.com
doriii
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 251
Join date : 2013-04-19
Location : durr

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Thu May 21 2015, 17:14

@mightydoughnut wrote:
Quote :
Why do just carbines? Why not 10 and 4 have splinter cannons? Same range if they move, more shots. 34 poison shots total.

Cause it costs a Venom (5 points short) to fully kit out 4 Splinter Cannons. Very Happy Myrvyn, you answered yourself to why nobody plays 10-man Shardcarabine Scourges. Such a squad costs 160 points, which is two Venoms and 30 points free for other stuff, at only 6 more shots. This is the same problem as with Hellions: we just have stuff that does that better. At 165 points you have a 10 man Kabalites squad in a Raider with 20 Twin-Linked shots, 3 Disintegrator Shots and 3+ Jink, so that's that.


this

its a big flaw in the codex i think when you want to take something then mathhammer it down to find out you are limited to very few optimum options
Back to top Go down
mightydoughnut
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 247
Join date : 2015-05-06

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Thu May 21 2015, 17:17

They could release a supplement to fix some stuff, but why do this when you can sell more Speesh Mareensssh models? Print a 20$ book with additional DE formations, a Decurion and some fluff. They won't make mad bucks but you will sell more DE models and even these that don't sell well might start to if you give them useful rules.

_________________
http://warlockpurple.tumblr.com - my wargaming blog


Last edited by mightydoughnut on Thu May 21 2015, 17:20; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
http://www.warlockpurple.tumblr.com
Myrvn
Sybarite


Posts : 379
Join date : 2012-08-05

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Thu May 21 2015, 17:19

True. Just thinking of methods to use them if people like the models. It is almost like having an option for Fire Dragons to get 0-4 awesome anti-infantry weapons. Why? The basic gun is very good at what it does. Same with Scourge. And why would anyone bring Fire Dragons when Wraithflamers are so much better?

I don't use Scourge, but anti infantry seems to be their best load out.

8-10 4+ saves may be more durable than an AV10 2HP vehicle, but that would be meta dependent. A standard gun boat probably does make more sense if aiming for efficiency.
Back to top Go down
kidfist0
Hellion


Posts : 27
Join date : 2012-11-13

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Fri May 22 2015, 08:29

@Myrvn wrote:
It is almost like having an option for Fire Dragons to get 0-4 awesome anti-infantry weapons. Why? The basic gun is very good at what it does. Same with Scourge. And why would anyone bring Fire Dragons when Wraithflamers are so much better?

I don't use Scourge, but anti infantry seems to be their best load out.

Replacing melta guns on the fire dragons would be ludicrous, as you say, as their primary purpose is a specialist anti armour unit. youre buying them specifically for that.

The scourge standard loadout is so-so anti-infantry fire, we can get that just as successfully from our mandatory troops slots. If im using up a valuable fast attack slot it needs to be doing something special. Ideally something that im struggling for elsewhere.
I think 5 with 4 haywires are probably the best loadout for them, but having used them multiple times ive never been overly convinced theyre worth the cost. I'd rather spending around the same number of points on reavers. It is a shame as they are lovely models.
Back to top Go down
Calyptra
Wych
avatar

Posts : 802
Join date : 2013-03-25
Location : Boston

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Fri May 22 2015, 08:47

@mightydoughnut wrote:
Quote :
Why do just carbines? Why not 10 and 4 have splinter cannons? Same range if they move, more shots. 34 poison shots total.

Cause it costs a Venom (5 points short) to fully kit out 4 Splinter Cannons. Very Happy Myrvyn, you answered yourself to why nobody plays 10-man Shardcarabine Scourges. Such a squad costs 160 points, which is two Venoms and 30 points free for other stuff, at only 6 more shots. This is the same problem as with Hellions: we just have stuff that does that better. At 165 points you have a 10 man Kabalites squad in a Raider with 20 Twin-Linked shots, 3 Disintegrator Shots and 3+ Jink, so that's that.

Maybe I'm mathing this wrong, but it looks to me like Scourges with shardcarbines have a slightly better points to poison ratio than Venoms.

A Venom gets 12 shots for 65 points, which comes to roughly 5.4 points per shot.

Five Scourges get 15 shots for 80 points (or ten scourges get 30 for 160, it's the same ratio), which is roughly 5.3 points per shot.

So, unless I'm missing something, Scourges with shardcarbines are a (slightly) cheaper source of poison than Venoms. (Obviously there are other factors as well; this is just one point of comparison.)

Five Scourges with four splinter cannons would get 19 shots if they move and 27 shots if stationary, which comes to 7.3 points/shot when moving and 5.1 points/shot when stationary, which makes me think more Scourges with shardcarbines is a better investment than giving them splinter cannons.

_________________
Dark Eldar plog: Drug-Crazed Space Elves
Stupid humans plog: Calyptra's Stupid Humans
Vampire Counts plog: Bat Country
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
avatar

Posts : 7199
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Fri May 22 2015, 09:22

@Calyptra wrote:
A Venom gets 12 shots for 65 points, which comes to roughly 5.4 points per shot.

Five Scourges get 15 shots for 80 points (or ten scourges get 30 for 160, it's the same ratio), which is roughly 5.3 points per shot.

I'd say the extra 18" range is probably worth that 0.1 point per shot, although there are certainly arguments to be made over the resilience of 10 infantry vs 1 vehicle.

_________________

You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Angus Khan
Slave
avatar

Posts : 19
Join date : 2014-12-19

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Fri May 22 2015, 10:01

@Count Adhemar wrote:
...although there are certainly arguments to be made over the resilience of 10 infantry vs 1 vehicle.

Honestly, this is one situation where I will take the vehicle every time... I've never had scourges survive a single turn in range of the enemy.  T3, 4+ Sv models just don't last very long at all.
Back to top Go down
mightydoughnut
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 247
Join date : 2015-05-06

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Fri May 22 2015, 10:07

Quote :
...although there are certainly arguments to be made over the resilience of 10 infantry vs 1 vehicle.
Two Vehicles to be precise - at this points.

Edit:
I have a question tho - I was thinking about going for 2 5-man teams with 4 Dark Lances each. I know, I know, snapshot after movements etc. but hear me out. Why should we move them? Most games are played on 48x48 or 72x48 boards, so why not deploy them first turn in some bushes to give them some more delicious cover saves and let them generate Tank and TEQ threat on 36' ? Or even better: from my experience, most DE players roll from Strategic Traits table anyway, so why not shoot for ruin cover bonus or that delicious three units infiltration? That would really make them a threat that way, without the need to move around the board. Have any of you tried that?

_________________
http://warlockpurple.tumblr.com - my wargaming blog
Back to top Go down
http://www.warlockpurple.tumblr.com
Angus Khan
Slave
avatar

Posts : 19
Join date : 2014-12-19

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Fri May 22 2015, 12:50

@mightydoughnut wrote:
I have a question tho - I was thinking about going for 2 5-man teams with 4 Dark Lances each. I know, I know, snapshot after movements etc. but hear me out. Why should we move them? Most games are played on 48x48 or 72x48 boards, so why not deploy them first turn in some bushes to give them some more delicious cover saves and let them generate Tank and TEQ threat on 36' ? Or even better: from my experience, most DE players roll from Strategic Traits table anyway, so why not shoot for ruin cover bonus or that delicious three units infiltration? That would really make them a threat that way, without the need to move around the board. Have any of you tried that?

Because trueborn do the exact same job for cheaper.
Back to top Go down
mightydoughnut
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 247
Join date : 2015-05-06

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Fri May 22 2015, 12:58

Quote :
Because trueborn do the exact same job for cheaper.
Umm, no? Trueborn are highly mobile 18'-range tank busters with Blasters, that's a way different role and you rather drop them from Reserves in a Venom, not hide them around in the bushes.

_________________
http://warlockpurple.tumblr.com - my wargaming blog
Back to top Go down
http://www.warlockpurple.tumblr.com
Angus Khan
Slave
avatar

Posts : 19
Join date : 2014-12-19

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Fri May 22 2015, 13:20

@mightydoughnut wrote:
Umm, no? Trueborn are highly mobile 18'-range tank busters with Blasters, that's a way different role and you rather drop them from Reserves in a Venom, not hide them around in the bushes.

Min-sized squad of trueborn can take 2 dark lances for 95 points. That is much cheaper than scourges, and trueborn have the benefit of being able to take a transport as extra protection.

Sure, trueborn are used most frequently with blasters, but that doesn't mean they don't have other uses as well.
Back to top Go down
Duke Daedric
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 44
Join date : 2014-05-16

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Fri May 22 2015, 13:25

I've tried it twice and firs time it was major succes, second time they had casual inpact. Anyways opponent has to dedicate a unit to hunt them specificaly because of theirs long range, which allows for other units to make some difference..
Back to top Go down
mightydoughnut
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 247
Join date : 2015-05-06

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Fri May 22 2015, 13:29

Quote :
Min-sized squad of trueborn can take 2 dark lances for 95 points. That is much cheaper than scourges, and trueborn have the benefit of being able to take a transport as extra protection.

I think you kinda missed my point. I'm not looking for cheap mobile shot squad (that's gonna snap shot anyway) because that's the role of blaster trueborn but I am trying to approach Scourges from a bit more different perspective, not as jump infantry, but as a sniper squad that can seriously threaten mosts models in threat range of 36'.

_________________
http://warlockpurple.tumblr.com - my wargaming blog
Back to top Go down
http://www.warlockpurple.tumblr.com
Angus Khan
Slave
avatar

Posts : 19
Join date : 2014-12-19

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Fri May 22 2015, 13:33

@mightydoughnut wrote:
I think you kinda missed my point. I'm not looking for cheap mobile shot squad (that's gonna snap shot anyway) because that's the role of blaster trueborn but I am trying to approach Scourges from a bit more different perspective, not as jump infantry, but as a sniper squad that can seriously threaten mosts models in threat range of 36'.

No, I understood what you are saying...I toyed with the idea myself several months ago.

The realization I came to was that paying a premium for jump troops who (if I'm using them right) never have to jump, seemed wasteful to me. I have found that trueborn, or even just kabalites, fill the "infantry-artillery" role better.

Maybe using scourges that way will work better for you than it did me... Everyone plays a little differently.
Back to top Go down
dumpeal
Wych
avatar

Posts : 888
Join date : 2015-02-13
Location : Québec

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Fri May 22 2015, 15:27

I thought of something, but never actually tried it. Scourge are jump unit, so, they are bulky. BUT, still can get in transport. I wonder what a blaster squad would do in a raider.

I know, "then, take blasterborn, in venom, you'll get that for less points". The problem with blasterborn is that when the raider (or venom) die, the squad either die or is too slow to do anything anymore. Scourge have 4+ save, and 6++. And they are jump unit. If I keep them in raider, they will gain the jink save and when the raider die, they'll still mobile.
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
avatar

Posts : 7199
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Fri May 22 2015, 15:51

@dumpeal wrote:
I thought of something, but never actually tried it. Scourge are jump unit, so, they are bulky. BUT, still can get in transport.

Jump Infantry cannot board transports unless the transport specifically allows them to (like the SM Stormraven).

_________________

You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
mightydoughnut
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 247
Join date : 2015-05-06

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Fri May 22 2015, 15:53

Quote :
Jump Infantry cannot board transports unless the transport specifically allows them to (like the SM Stormraven).
No, jump infantry is still infantry so they can board transport, there are transports that disallow bulky models, like space marine rhinos.

_________________
http://warlockpurple.tumblr.com - my wargaming blog
Back to top Go down
http://www.warlockpurple.tumblr.com
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
avatar

Posts : 7199
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   Fri May 22 2015, 16:01

@mightydoughnut wrote:
Quote :
Jump Infantry cannot board transports unless the transport specifically allows them to (like the SM Stormraven).
No, jump infantry is still infantry so they can board transport, there are transports that disallow bulky models, like space marine rhinos.

Nope.

Quote :
Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise.

_________________

You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Optimum Scourge Loadouts   

Back to top Go down
 
Optimum Scourge Loadouts
Back to top 
Page 2 of 3Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Drukhari Tactics
-
Jump to: