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 Heamonculus Coven Tactics

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omkara
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PostSubject: Heamonculus Coven Tactics   Wed May 06 2015, 14:11

I've been fiddling around with a lot of lists and I end up being drawn towards the Haemonculus Covens the most. I'm going for a 1850 pts list which should allow me to participate somewhat competitive in tournaments and hoping they don't mind that my army consists of 3 formations. The purpose of this entire post is to ask you how you would utilize this army, if you were to play this exact same list. Do you have any pointers regarding tactics; how I could maximize my chances with this list in particular OR perhaps you have a better idea for a Haemonculus Coven-only list of 1850 points which has a more competitive certainty to it.

Thanks in advance!




Formation: Corpsethief Claw (675pts)

2x Talos [Chain-Flails, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]
3x Talos [Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Heat Lance]

My preference lies with the TLHL for the sake of taking out those MC, TEQ, IC that have ID in melee combat, but since my options against mechanized armies are relatively scarce I calculated that arming 2 out of 5 Talos with TLHB should prove useful. This formation is deployed with the support of the Cronos. I'm not entirely sure if I will actually make use of their Scout special rule, since I prefer to have them enjoying 4+ FNP from the start.



Formation: Grotesquerie (600pts)

Haemonculus [Crucible of Malediction, Liquifier Gun, Scissorhand, Webway Portal]
+
Aberration [Agoniser]
Grotesque [Liquifier Gun]
Grotesque
Raider [Torment Grenade Launcher]

Scarlet Epicurean Haemonculus [Crucible of Malediction, Liquifier Gun, Scissorhand, Webway Portal]
+
Aberration [Agoniser]
Grotesque [Liquifier Gun]
Grotesque
Raider [Torment Grenade Launcher]

Now with only 2 Liquifier Guns per unit, their template terror attacks have a reduced chance of hitting hard, but at the same time I decided to provide the unit with an Agoniser wielding Aberration to increase their effectiveness against MEQ. They are supported by the DC and, should I face enemies that aren't Fearless or enjoy the ATSKNF rule, they will indeed know fear through the use of the Raider's TGL combined with either a -1LD or -2LD (or possibly even -3LD should the Corpseclaw Thieves be close enough) reduction, depending on whether its the unit with or without the Scarlet Epicureran Haemonculus. Even though their role is preferred to take out MEQ or GEQ, they can be useful against TEQ thanks to the support of the DC.



Formation: Scarlet Epicureans (575pts)

Cronos [Spirit Probe]

Wracks [3x Wracks]
Acothyst [Hexrifle, Wrack tools]
Wrack with Special Weapon [Ossefactor]
Venom [Splinter Cannon]

Wracks [3x Wracks]
Acothyst [Hexrifle, Wrack tools]
Wrack with Special Weapon [Ossefactor]
Venom [Splinter Cannon]

Along with the Cronos, the Wrack units will be deployed within 6" of the Cronos. It would be a shame if the Venom were to blow up and I'd be out of range of the 4+ FNP option. That being said, with the Venoms they do have the maneuverability to quickly cruise towards objectives and still be able to at least fire off 2 SC. Still, generally speaking, this unit is here simply for back up. Like the Grotesques, they can be useful against TEQ, but their roll is mainly taking out GEQ and supporting the Talos in annoying MC.


Last edited by omkara on Fri May 08 2015, 07:09; edited 16 times in total
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Deamon
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PostSubject: Re: Heamonculus Coven Tactics   Wed May 06 2015, 14:24

Your tactic is going to change based on the mission and the opponents you are facing. Since you will almost always be out manoeuvered by other lists, I would suggest ti play the objective and soak your opponents' fire since all your units are going to be hard to shift.

If you need to put pressure on your opponent, Shove the Gort in his face turn and, and hope the survive to charge on turn 2. The Wracking being on foot, you need to keep them well hidden to score objective (a 5 man squad will get shot off the table if caught in the open). Meanwhile, move your CTC forwards and hope to catch something or deny a large area of the map.
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omkara
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PostSubject: Re: Heamonculus Coven Tactics   Wed May 06 2015, 14:32

@Deamon wrote:
Your tactic is going to change based on the mission and the opponents you are facing.  Since you will almost always be out maneuvered by other lists, I would suggest to play the objective and soak your opponents' fire since all your units are going to be hard to shift.

If you need to put pressure on your opponent,   Shove the Grots in his face turn and, and hope the survive to charge on turn 2.  The Wracking being on foot, you need to keep them well hidden to score objective (a 5 man squad will get shot off the table if caught in the open).  Meanwhile, move your CTC forwards and hope to catch something or deny a large area of the map.

With "play the objective" you probably mean for me to take a more defensive approach right? Place the Wracks in cover and on an objective?

From what I understand is that I can either prevent Line Of Sight towards the Wracks when I place them hidden behind the Talos, OR at the very least, the Talos can provide a cover save for the Wracks, right? And with the 4+ FNP they should survive a little longer, long enough to continue being those annoying long ranged pests that make infantry explode and hurt the rest of their unit.

So I could either have the entire blob off Talos, Cronos and Wracks move together, the Talos counting as a shield, or just drop the Wracks somewhere behind cover while I go hunt with the CTC.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Heamonculus Coven Tactics   Wed May 06 2015, 20:39

Are you trying to infer from the rules that multiple shots from Soulfright weapons will require multiple tests?
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Heamonculus Coven Tactics   Wed May 06 2015, 21:04

You can only force one test for soulfright weapons. Otherwise it would be said ' for each weapon'. Reading in different languages shows that they intended that each squad can only take one test each turn.
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Heamonculus Coven Tactics   Wed May 06 2015, 23:58

Not to mention that if you use this tactic against any marine, other than chaos, they will not be affected. This is the reason I do not use this style of attacks.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Heamonculus Coven Tactics   Thu May 07 2015, 00:23

The formatting makes this crazy hard to read.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Heamonculus Coven Tactics   Thu May 07 2015, 00:26

@JackKnife01 wrote:
Not to mention that if you use this tactic against any marine, other than chaos, they will not be affected. This is the reason I do not use this style of attacks.

Look at it like this: the top 3 armies competitively, (Tau, Necrons, CWE) aren't immune. It's like worst case scenario-insurance.
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omkara
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PostSubject: Re: Heamonculus Coven Tactics   Thu May 07 2015, 13:09

Yeah my interpretation of the soulfright rule was wishful thinking based on logic considering that whichever causes the soulfright must be some form of drug and we all know, the more drugs you take, the more wasted you get, so I only thought it to be logical that you would have to take more LD tests, but I guess logic never was GW their cup of tea.

But anyway, it's not the core of my army to rely upon soulfright at all. It's there, just as the Crucible's to provide me with extra/alternative options against enemies, because I want to be prepaired for anything possible on a tournament, as much as a Haemonculus Coven army can be of course.
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Mononcule
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PostSubject: Re: Heamonculus Coven Tactics   Fri May 08 2015, 03:16

a few ideas (I'm not a pro):

Wracks minimum size is now 5 iirc

AT is not the strengh of Coven, and you wont have problem against 2+ armor (Talos and Cronos are MC and ossefactors are AP2). For this reason I think the greater range of haywire blasters may be more useful than heat lances.

I'm not sure that all theses liquifiers, acothysts and nightshields are well used points. You can spend these points better by giving venoms or DL raiders to your wracks. A little more shooting (AI or AT) is always useful, and mobility is also welcome in a rather slow list.
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omkara
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PostSubject: Re: Heamonculus Coven Tactics   Fri May 08 2015, 07:06

Thank you Mononcule. Despite that you are not a pro, neither am I and I decided to consider the thoughts of the Haywire Blaster anew. I ended up removing 2 Heat Lances and replacing them with Haywire Blasters just to get a little extra anti vehicle kick.

I also removed some Grotesque's (and their Liquifier Guns) out of the equation (which also helps kicking in that Rampage earlier on) to make room for Aberrations with Agonisers AND Venom transport for the Wracks.

I updated the initial post with a new list.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Heamonculus Coven Tactics   Fri May 08 2015, 10:22

With regard to your grotesques, have you considered putting all the liquifier guns into one unit?

With liquifier guns being so pitiful, it just seems you'd be better off concentrating them - rather than relying on just 2 to do anything meaningful.

Although, to be honest, I'd rather drop the liquifier guns and have an extra grotesque in each squad. I've found units of 3 grotesques to be a bit dicey. But, maybe that's just me.
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omkara
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PostSubject: Re: Heamonculus Coven Tactics   Fri May 08 2015, 10:38

@The Shredder wrote:
With regard to your grotesques, have you considered putting all the liquifier guns into one unit?

With liquifier guns being so pitiful, it just seems you'd be better off concentrating them - rather than relying on just 2 to do anything meaningful.

Although, to be honest, I'd rather drop the liquifier guns and have an extra grotesque in each squad. I've found units of 3 grotesques to be a bit dicey. But, maybe that's just me.

I have not considered putting them all in one unit. Might be an interesting idea actually. Still with only 2 shots, i'd have 50% chance to score an AP3 or less result, but then you'd still have to triumph the STR4 vs Toughness "X". I kinda like them having those Walls of Death even if it doesn't always come out useful.

At first I had 4 grotesque's per unit, BUT, with 4 grotesque's and 1 Haemonculus, you'd have 5 models in the unit and with only 4 models, I can basically charge any other unit and always count on Rampage to kick in.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Heamonculus Coven Tactics   Fri May 08 2015, 10:52

@omkara wrote:

At first I had 4 grotesque's per unit, BUT, with 4 grotesque's and 1 Haemonculus, you'd have 5 models in the unit and with only 4 models, I can basically charge any other unit and always count on Rampage to kick in.

That's true but, realistically, how many 5-man squads are you likely to need rampage against? Razz
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omkara
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PostSubject: Re: Heamonculus Coven Tactics   Fri May 08 2015, 11:01

@The Shredder wrote:
@omkara wrote:

At first I had 4 grotesque's per unit, BUT, with 4 grotesque's and 1 Haemonculus, you'd have 5 models in the unit and with only 4 models, I can basically charge any other unit and always count on Rampage to kick in.

That's true but, realistically, how many 5-man squads are you likely to need rampage against? Razz

TEQ Razz

But in all seriousness, the Liqufier Guns vs high STR and heavy Armour don't do that much, but to help them survive larger groups of lesser enemies such as GEQ ithe liquifier guns suddenly become a lot more interesting.

And this is a list that needs to be versatile enough to be able to handle any possible threat.
I'm not going to assume that I`ll be tournament winner at all, but I want to at least stand a reasonable chance with the Coven.
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