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 Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?

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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Thu May 07 2015, 06:08

Forgeworld Model. Giant Haywire Cannon on the front of it that can do a lot if it hits. Has two settings and is 135 points. Great at killing some things, including Monsterous Creatures. Thsingle beam has a rule that does D3 haywire hits to vehicles and instant death to any thing with a toughness on a 6.
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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Thu May 07 2015, 07:50

@CptMetal wrote:
What is a reaper?

@JackKnife01 wrote:
Forgeworld Model. Giant Haywire Cannon on the front of it that can do a lot if it hits. Has two settings and is 135 points. Great at killing some things, including Monsterous Creatures. Thsingle beam has a rule that does D3 haywire hits to vehicles and instant death to any thing with a toughness on a 6.

Still no Wraith Knight killer though. Neutral
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Thu May 07 2015, 08:07

Not anymore.....Mainly impart to the upgrade it got....
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Tittliewinks22
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Thu May 07 2015, 13:27

@JackKnife01 wrote:
Forgeworld Model. Giant Haywire Cannon on the front of it that can do a lot if it hits. Has two settings and is 135 points. Great at killing some things, including Monsterous Creatures. Thsingle beam has a rule that does D3 haywire hits to vehicles and instant death to any thing with a toughness on a 6.
Instant death on a 5+
Also good large blast mode that causes pinning and concussive, I've been meaning to try a LD bubble to cause pinning checks at -3 to -5 LD to prevent overwatch.
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Thu May 07 2015, 23:29

How does that pervert Overwatch exactly?
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Thu May 07 2015, 23:52

Pinning
...If the unit fails the test, it is Pinned and must immediately Go to Ground...

Go to Ground
A unit that has Gone to Ground cannot move, Run or charge. It can
only fire Snap Shots when it wishes to shoot, and cannot fire
Overwatch.

As the unit is pinned by failing the test it has gone to ground, a unit that has gone to ground cannot fire overwatch. So he wants to debuff the Leadership of the oponent in hopes of them failing their pinning test when fired upon by the pinning blast so that they are forced to go to ground and no longer be able to overwatch.


Last edited by CurstAlchemist on Thu May 07 2015, 23:56; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Rephrasing.)
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Fri May 08 2015, 00:03

Oh wow, that is interesting I did not know that about Go to Ground. Good to know.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Fri May 08 2015, 00:25

Nothing makes me happier than someone scoffing at my army list and then getting tabled.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Fri May 08 2015, 00:45

I think Grag Creatures should be wounded maybe on a 5+ a 6+ is just dumb. Basically saying if you bring one it wins games....
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Fri May 08 2015, 03:11

It was fun when our last codex let us take agonizers that still wounded on a 4+.
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Tittliewinks22
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Fri May 08 2015, 12:51

@JackKnife01 wrote:
I think Grag Creatures should be wounded maybe on a 5+ a 6+ is just dumb. Basically saying if you bring one it wins games....

Was perfectly fine at 6+ when GCs coated 500+ points. A 300 point GC breaks the mold and makes the 6+ rule seem broken.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Fri May 08 2015, 22:19

@Tittliewinks22 wrote:
Was perfectly fine at 6+ when GCs coated 500+ points. A 300 point GC breaks the mold and makes the 6+ rule seem broken.

Amen to that. At 500 points, the Wraith Knight would still be extremely tough, but at least fairly priced for what it does. Keeping it at around only 300 points was a crucial mistake on GW's part.


On topic though, I think looking for a single model to match the Wraith Knight is not the right way.
Terminators took one down in a White Dwarf "test battle", while an Imperial Knight, Bloodthirsters, Toxicrenes and C'Tan failed. So whatever the "Wraith Knight killer" will be, I'm pretty sure it's a squad rather than a monster.
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CrushTen
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Sat May 09 2015, 02:46

Codex Eldar: Commorragh
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Sat May 09 2015, 07:05

Oh... I'd love that codex. Streamlining the various Else Codex...

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Sat May 09 2015, 12:59

I would Like to see a Bomber get D-str instead s9 ap2.....

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Sat May 09 2015, 17:50

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:

There are quite a few things that could fix DE.
Make Splinter Weapons S4 and poison (it is ranged so we do not get to reroll but do not get punished if we fight T3) with lethal dose at a wound roll of 6.
Venoms can transport 6 models.
Raiders transport 12 models.
Trueborn BS5, Bloodbrides WS5
Wyches get Acrobatics and the 4++ works in the entire assault phase.
Wych weapons fixed, up to 4 in a squad of Bloodbrides
Darklances are Salvo 2/1 36"
Power from pain changed to 1-> nothing 2 -> +1 FnP (6+ if no FnP) 3 -> +2 FnP (5+ if no FnP)
Incubi base S4
Hellions move 18", get +1A and gain 4+ cover if they moved
Archon gets reserve manipulation and automatic nightfight
Succubus gets disarm and a 3++ in challenges
Haemonculus in 2 variations again, hand out buffs to coven units
Mandrakes may deepstrike and go into active reserve again
Liquifier -> Poison
Shredder -> S6 Monofile, 24"
Soulfright -> works against any model and is an addition to a weapon effect (like soulblaze)
Talos and cronos cheaper
Ravager can be taken in squads of 3, if they do so they can combine their lances for 1 D shot per Ravager
Voidraven AV11 again, D-1 weapons
complete rework for SCs, add in more SC
Agonizer and power weapons cheaper

I really like this list of suggestion. The only thing I'd say is that Incubi don't need +1S - they need grenades. Razz


Anyway, if we were going to get a Wraithknight I think we would have had it already. GKs got the Dreadknight in 5th, Tau and Eldar got their MCs in 6th... we have a 7th edition book and still no equivalent. I really don't think it's the sort of thing GW would hold in reserve.
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lament.config
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Sat May 09 2015, 21:36

Honestly, I would be excited about a Dark Eldar GC. It seems like the Heamonculus would be competitive enough to create something in response to a wraithknight. We definitely need some sort of LoW.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Sat May 09 2015, 23:40

it really isnt that under priced when compared to knights who get a s:D weapon alot of the time AND a gun and save the wraithknight gets either D guns and no invul or ccw and an invul they are strong yes but s:D is the next logical step for armies with the force escalation that has been 6th and 7th
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Archon Rievect
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Sat May 09 2015, 23:51

Personally I would love to wwp a succubus and 12 lhamaens next to a garg creature,shoot it with poison assault wound on 2(?)or is this negeed now,hope for some lethal dose instant kill 6s...and kill the effin thing....and do my big of glorious death..
Now I admit I need to read up on the garg creature crud...but our poison should do something still.... I say an option to add a llhamie to a blood ride or trueborn and all poison goes to 2+. I am not a big fan of huge creatures cluttering normal games...
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Sun May 10 2015, 04:10

@Archon Rievect wrote:
Personally I would love to wwp a succubus and 12 lhamaens next to a garg creature,shoot it with poison assault wound on 2(?)or is this negeed now,hope for some lethal dose instant kill 6s...and kill the effin thing....and do my big of glorious death..
Now I admit I need to read up on the garg creature crud...but our poison should do something still.... I say an option to add a llhamie to a blood ride or trueborn  and all poison goes to 2+. I am not a big fan of huge creatures cluttering normal games...
Unfortunately poison and sniper wound GCs on a 6+ only. Fleshbane still works though. Grotesques in theory can work, but the knight is higher I and IDs them in CC.

Again I don't think we need a new low. They could fix the voidraven or tantalus to be LOWs. Tantalus footprint is bigger than a baneblade.
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Archon Rievect
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Sun May 10 2015, 05:36

Well,that frikkin blows big time...what is the info regarding ap1 and ap2 weapons? Do gargs take auto wound,do invul or?? Like I said I need to read up on this garg creature stuff... Maybe ap1 massed like an exorcist missile strike would do it? I run 3-6 in my sob army..forget using de against them
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Sun May 10 2015, 05:55

While not an answer for a pure DE list I just have to wonder about deep striking in a 10 man unit of Harliquins in a raider equiped with Neuro Disruptors. 10 shots (turn they deep strike in given no mishap or scatter out of range which will be snap fired) of AP 2 fleshbane being fired. If they are still around the following turn that is another round of shots plus charging with melee using the Neuro Disruptor at inititive 6 and 7. That is 325 points (330 if you add in just a Dark Lance) to the Wraithknights 295+ points. A bit costly but might take the oponent off guard.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Sun May 10 2015, 06:44

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
Quote :
or had such an ancient model it didn't do the fluff justice.

There are quite a few things that could fix DE.

Venoms can transport 6 models.
Raiders transport 12 models.
Trueborn BS5, Bloodbrides WS5

Darklances are Salvo 2/1 36"

Liquifier -> Poison
Shredder -> S6 Monofile, 24"
Soulfright -> works against any model and is an addition to a weapon effect (like soulblaze)

Talos and cronos cheaper

Ravager can be taken in squads of 3, if they do so they can combine their lances for 1 D shot per Ravager

Voidraven AV11 again, D-1 weapons




I wrote up a frighteningly similar wish list, particularly on the above points.  As for the dark lance being salvo 2/1 though, why not just make it rapid fire?  It'd encourage aggressively closing with an enemy to increase fire power, as well as mitigate jinking as you fall into range of more and more weapons.  Dark eldar foot troops taking any "move or fire" weapon is stupid, and the fact that our technologically inferior cousins get weapons platforms and we don't is just insulting.

As for the Talos/chronos, I also say make them cheaper, but give them the option to purchase jump capability which would bring them back up to the same price (or slightly higher).  Seriously, is there any other model that GW makes on a flying base that is limit to 6" movement?

I think hellions should just be scrapped, and instead give them the the roll of reavers.  Make them jetbikes with bladevanes (I mean they're riding giant blades right?) and suddenly they're useful. Alternatively let reavers take 1 special, 1 heavy weapon, and 1 bomb (Melta or large blast poison) per 3 bikes.

Mandrakes too would have to be entirely redone and to be honest I don't even know where to begin.  Compare the new striking scorpions to your mandrakes:  1 extra point per model basically gives you a mandrake with... power armor, battle focus, a +1str ap6 melee weapon, bladestorm pistol, poisoned hammer of wrath attack every round, and the ability to put another wave serpent on the table (even though you're infiltrating).  For 40 more points you add an exarch with claw for up to 9 WS5, I6, strength 6, ap2 attacks in challenges.  Yep, that's pretty much craftworld vs dark eldar summed up right now.  O wait - we get soulfire so I guess it's even?  tongue  

Finally give anything with fleet - battle focus, replace all splinter rifles with shard c tongue arbines (+2points per model), allow wyches to take a 2nd pistol for +1 point a piece, replace splinter pods with twin linked shard carbines.

Now we're starting to get somewhere.  Too bad they won't do anything until the next game edition or until they come up with a new batch of plastic to sell us.
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Sun May 10 2015, 11:20

@stilgar27

Well, chances are they are going to nerf Wyches and other units even more.
After all, everybody was expecting some reasonable buffs for this edition already...
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar WraithKnight Equvilant?   Sun May 10 2015, 19:11

To the Eldar Codex: Commorragh, that would make me too angry. We are different. I do not want to "fall in line" we are our own.
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