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 Looking for suggestions for 600pt list

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Mon May 04 2015, 16:35

My friends and I are currently doing 600pt games, with the following rules:

- No AV13+
- No fliers
- No Unbound
- Maximum 200pts on each unit (not including dedicated transports)
- Maximum 150pts on any character or Monstrous Creature
- Formations are allowed, so long as they meet the above requirements

The thing is, I actually have no idea what to include in such small games. silent

Does anyone have any suggestions?
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Deamon
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Mon May 04 2015, 17:24

Court for a 10 pts HQ.
Kabalite win venoms, maybe a ravager or 2.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Mon May 04 2015, 17:33

Ugh, I really don't want to just have a Lhamaean as my only HQ.
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perhow
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Mon May 04 2015, 22:32

If I have one tip for this it's don't neglect anti-armour. I found it tempting to stuff loads of venoms with small warrior squads at low points games but then faced a field of Chimeras or Rhinos I couldn't do anything about. I'd say a barebones Haemy or a blaster Archon without a webway portal (for once) if you have to take a HQ. Combat patrol rules often say you don't need to take one.
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Mon May 04 2015, 23:18

10 Warriors- Blaster/Splinter Cannon
--Raider-Nightshields and Splinter Racks, with Dark Lance.
10 Warriors- Blaster/ Splinter Cannon
--Raider-Nightshields and Splinter Racks, with Dark Lance.
Archon, Shadowfield and Agoniser, Soul Trap
-Venom-with Dual Splinter Cannon

600/600

4 Dark Lances, 36 Poison
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Mon May 04 2015, 23:23

That's an interesting list.

So, do you think an Archon can work as a melee beast on his own, without a unit?
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Mon May 04 2015, 23:26

Run and gun with him. That is the whole point and he can in theory and practice kill himself an entire force of normal marines. This much is true, I have done it. Just remember to move and shoot. I put the number if you moved. If you stay still, at 36 inch range you are shooting 6 shots. At 24 inch range you are shooting 14. If they are within 12 inches you are shooting 20(if moved) to 22(if not moved) poison shots that are twin linked. On top of that, if they charge you that is 22, twin linked, shots on overwatch.

That is from each raider.

So in total, you are shooting without movement 40 shots. 28 of which are twin linked. Combine that if you really wanted, at rapid fire range you are shooting 40-44 poison shots that are twin linked, total of 66. Plus 2 Blasters and 2, 36 range Dark Lances.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Mon May 04 2015, 23:51

Grotesquerie. Webway portal, scissorhand, and sump on the Haemmy. Two units of 4 grotesques in raiders with night shields and Dark Lances is, by my count, 590 points.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Tue May 05 2015, 10:19

@JackKnife01 wrote:
Run and gun with him. That is the whole point and he can in theory and practice kill himself an entire force of normal marines. This much is true, I have done it. Just remember to move and shoot. I put the number if you moved. If you stay still, at 36 inch range you are shooting 6 shots. At 24 inch range you are shooting 14. If they are within 12 inches you are shooting 20(if moved) to 22(if not moved) poison shots that are twin linked. On top of that, if they charge you that is 22, twin linked, shots on overwatch.

That is from each raider.

So in total, you are shooting without movement 40 shots. 28 of which are twin linked. Combine that if you really wanted, at rapid fire range you are shooting 40-44 poison shots that are twin linked, total of 66. Plus 2 Blasters and 2, 36 range Dark Lances.

Hah, that is quite impressive.

@Jimsolo wrote:
Grotesquerie.  Webway portal, scissorhand, and sump on the Haemmy.  Two units of 4 grotesques in raiders with night shields and Dark Lances is, by my count, 590 points.

I'll have to try that as well.

One question though - why the WWP on the Haemonculus? Would it not be better to spend those points on the Nightmare Doll, or even a 5th grotesque for one of the squads?

I'm just curious as to why you think I should deep-strike him in.
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Tue May 05 2015, 10:22

Because he gave you stump. Which helps. Honestly I like Pancrea, but that is just me. With 10 points to spare you can make your Grot bomb, which is why the Webway Portal, very tough.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Tue May 05 2015, 10:27

Grot bomb?

I fear I'm unfamiliar with that term. confused
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Tue May 05 2015, 10:30

Drop a unit of Grots into your opponent's lines. They are in a raider so they can deep strike. Then they burst out or let their transport be destroyed. They get out and, thanks to being fearless, are pretty much unaffected. Then they go forth and destroy things. In a sense you drop a bomb of Str 5 and Tough 5 with 3 wound models. Pretty strong tactic, and scares opponents.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Tue May 05 2015, 10:34

Ah, I see.

Just one thing though - wouldn't giving one of the raiders aethersails accomplish basically the same thing? Depending on the board, they can either deep strike and then move 24" to get into position, or move a combined 36" from my own board edge (if there's too much terrain to risk deep striking them).

Or, is that still not enough, compared to a WWP?
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Tue May 05 2015, 10:38

WWP Gets them there regardless, but it depends on the turn they come in. Now it is true that Ethersails could do it as well. I like using those as well. Just you can only move 36 inch, so depending on your opponent, like Space Marines and their Null Deployment, you can actually force them to deploy their drop pods first and then land after the fact. At some point. That is what the WWP allows. A no scatter deep strike. Basically makes a unit a drop pod.
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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Tue May 05 2015, 10:40

Both have their advantges.

WWP can be deleyed untill T4 and that Raider can be destroyed to deployment zone.

2+ armors are allowed? Be sure to take some AP2 then.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Tue May 05 2015, 11:12

@Vasara wrote:
2+ armors are allowed? Be sure to take some AP2 then.

Other than Dark Lances, what would you suggest?

The best I can do with a Grotesquerie is Scissorhands. Neutral
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Tue May 05 2015, 11:14

Incubi? 4 of them in a Venom with the Archon would scare the living daylights out of most opponents at this point level.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Tue May 05 2015, 11:25

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Incubi? 4 of them in a Venom with the Archon would scare the living daylights out of most opponents at this point level.

Hmm, what about something like this:

Archon - Clone Field, Huskblade, Parasite's Kiss
3 Incubi w/ Klaivex, Raider w/ Disintegrator
5 Warriors w/ Blaster, Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
5 Warriors w/ Blaster, Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Tue May 05 2015, 11:27

At this point level that would scare most things. Why the Kiss? Why Huskblade?
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Tue May 05 2015, 11:32

@JackKnife01 wrote:
At this point level that would scare most things. Why the Kiss? Why Huskblade?

Everyone needs a kiss now and then. Very Happy

With regard to the Huskblade, I just thought Instant Death might be more useful than some AP3 poison. Obviously it would have been nicer if I could afford the Soul Trap... but as you can see, I couldn't even afford Shadow Field. Razz

Do you think Agoniser would be more useful?
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Tue May 05 2015, 11:37

A Huskblade cannot hurt a Wraithknight with unmodified strength. I used an Agoniser and killed a Wraithknight. You need to wound on 6s, but you still can wound with one.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Tue May 05 2015, 11:48

@JackKnife01 wrote:
A Huskblade cannot hurt a Wraithknight with unmodified strength. I used an Agoniser and killed a Wraithknight. You need to wound on 6s, but you still can wound with one.

Bear in mind that MCs costing more than 150pts are banned - so I don't have to worry about WKs in this format.

Oh, and regarding the Kiss, I thought I should give you a sensible answer. For one, I just like the weapon and it's about as cheap as they come. But, more importantly, I was curious as to whether it would do anything interesting in this game type. In most larger games with heavy artillery and high-cost lords, my Archon (on the rare instance when I used one) would have a Shadowfield and would probably be dead the minute it failed. However, in this sort of game, he only has a clone field but also (hopefully) won't have to deal with quite as much S6+. So, it's possible he'll take some wounds but still be alive afterwards. In which case, the Kiss might actually let him regain a wound or two afterwards (as well as softening up the target a little). And, if not, then at least I've only wasted 5pts.
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Tue May 05 2015, 11:51

You can use Huskblade, but it goes off strength. You are hurting Marines at T4, so you are hurting them on 5s. If you use the Agoniser you can wound them on 4s.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Tue May 05 2015, 13:03

@JackKnife01 wrote:
You can use Huskblade, but it goes off strength. You are hurting Marines at T4, so you are hurting them on 5s. If you use the Agoniser you can wound them on 4s.

That is a concern. I also reaally, really miss AP2 on the Huskblade. In fact, I have a recurring vision of an tearful Archon desperately trying to wrest a Klaive from one of his Incubi bodyguards, so that he'll finally have a worthwhile weapon. Rolling Eyes

Oh well, it's not a tournament or anything so we can swap our lists around. I'll try both weapons and see which works best.
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for suggestions for 600pt list   Mon Jun 15 2015, 23:33

Too bad no flyers i could bring 2 razorwings 1 DL 1 Dissie w/SC and Archon w/ agg and clone field and 1 sslyth guard my troops would be 2 squads of 5 warriors on a stock raider each. As much as i love venoms and all our poison we can bring 600 is a small game id rather bring stuff your enemies would have a hard time stopping or countering sence no flyers bring two ravagers or talos's the goal is to get the most heavy support or fast attack for your money my raider squads are only 95 pts each leaving lots of wiggle room for big guns
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