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 Null Deployement : Talos vs Scalpel Squadron

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Deamon
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PostSubject: Null Deployement : Talos vs Scalpel Squadron   Mon May 04 2015, 02:47

In my last 6 games, I've been toying with Null Deployment lists. All my lists have 2 Talos and they are the only thing I deploy on the map. So far I've been lucky and always deployed which allowed me to force my opponents to play first. This is all well and good but in my last match up, I wasn't paying attention and forgot to ask my opponent what he was playing and I ended up with a Wraith Knight in front of my talos alonrs with 2 vypers, a Autarch and a Farseer. Had I pay attention I would have deployed something else but the other side of the board was crowded with Scatterbikes and Reapers... Basically It would have been better for me to take first turn and deploy everything.

Now, I fell in love with Null Deployement. I never feel more like and Archon than when my whole army arrive and obliterate most of my opponents army. So, what could counter something able to wipe Talos off the board turn 1? The Scalpel Squadron. Anyone used it in the null deployment list? If I can play second, they would work just was well as Talos (though my Talos are an amazing counter assault unit). But what if my opponents force me to go first? Are they easily shot off the board if I play them defensively? I'm gonna try it soon but I would like to get your inputs about that.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Null Deployement : Talos vs Scalpel Squadron   Mon May 04 2015, 04:59

I've been doing it in virtually every game since December and it I've literally never had them shot off the board. 4+ or 3+ cover save, 5+ Invuln save, plus five dudes with FNP, and then you have to do it all AGAIN? In one round of shooting? Virtually impossible in the first round.

If there is a nice, sick gazelle at the edge of the herd, by all means take it out. But there's no reason to endanger your Venoms. You can always pick up the tasty First Blood next turn, and the primary purpose in taking them isn't Surgical Excision, it's the null deployment. Don't be afraid to deploy them out of range of your opponent's guns, even if that leaves you just twiddling your thumbs for a turn.

Trying Talos-anchor strategies always ends in heartbreak for me. The Talos winds up being such a target he never gets to do anything. (Now, Corpsethief Claw? That might be something...)
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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: Null Deployement : Talos vs Scalpel Squadron   Mon May 04 2015, 08:43

I'll be trying out both Corpsethief Claw and Scalpel Squadron null deployment in the near future.
With the Corpsethief it obvs isn't exactly "null", since over a third of my list will be starting on the board lol, but the idea stands. Kabalite Venoms and Haywire Scourges will fill out the rest.

Do you hide your Talos in cover? Throw them face-first up the board?
As for the Talos winding up never doing anything, thinking of it like that is counter-productive to happiness and longevity! Remember, the Talos soaks up crazy amounts of firepower. Not to mention, with only Talos on the table, your opponent gets fixated on them and will continue to worry about them the rest of the match. Human psychology is hilarious that way.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Null Deployement : Talos vs Scalpel Squadron   Mon May 04 2015, 09:10

I never use a Talos as an Anchor but a "naked" Cronos.
Same defensive stats and better FnP while costing less.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Null Deployement : Talos vs Scalpel Squadron   Mon May 04 2015, 12:13

Depends on terrain and my enemy whether he gets hidden or not.

Let me know how the CTC works. I'm having to rebuild my engines, so mine is out of commission atm.
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Deamon
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PostSubject: Re: Null Deployement : Talos vs Scalpel Squadron   Mon May 04 2015, 12:16

I use a unit of 2 Talos with Ichor injector. I deploy them out of line of sight if possible, if not, in cover. Their splinter cannon ensure they do something every turn (except once but that's because I rolled like a dice God with my razorwing and they obliterated everything in range). I slowly move them up the field, they are an amazing area denial and usually prevent pretty much anything from coming too close from my Ravagers. Most of the time, I managed to get them into combat except against fast shooty opponents like Eldars.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Null Deployement : Talos vs Scalpel Squadron   Wed May 06 2015, 08:56

Add 3 Mandrakes for the purpose. If the enemy doesn't ignore los or don't have any dangerous firing Deepstrike, you can hide theme. If the enemy does, but doesn't ignore cover saves, they save pretty well.

2 Talos AND 3 Mandrakes (36 points) can works very well imho.
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