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 Struggling with CSM

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flakmonkey
Sybarite
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Join date : 2013-03-05

PostSubject: Struggling with CSM   Sun May 03 2015, 07:01

So, I'm havin a hard time with an opponents CSM.
I know they're considered a weaker codex, so maybe it's just me.
Today's Game
I ran a dull shooting list-
3 Venoms (Incubi, Lhamaean, Wyches), 3 splinter rack raiders, 2 Razorwings blasterborn raider and scourge and 2 ravagers.
He ran
2 bike squads(Lord in one), raptors, CSM squad(another lord) sitting behind Aegis with Quadgun, 3 squads of autocannon havocs and 3 Helcult formations(Helbrute(reaper/missile launcher) with 2 ten man cultists squads)
Had to play on a small board(4x4) terrain mainly in deployment, open in centre. Placed is objectives were mainly in/near his deployment zone, I'd set mine up closer to mid-field.
He went first, and hammered me with auto fire. And that was pretty much how it went the whole game. Razors came on separately, and got hit by quad fire and got chewed up.
Only his 2 bikes and raptors came forward, and they got murdered pretty fast.
I jinked, hugged cover, and I still couldn't survive. I tried to hit the havocs, but I couldn't cause enough wounds.

So basically he sat there and shot.

How could I have handled it differently?
I think I wasn't aggressive enough. But I don't know how to be more aggressive in the face of so much long range shooting.

Bit of a whinge, appreciate if you managed to read all that.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Struggling with CSM   Sun May 03 2015, 07:37

Perhaps some grotesques in a Raider wog a character with portal? Get close and crush him in close combat?
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Dark_Kindred
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PostSubject: Re: Struggling with CSM   Sun May 03 2015, 08:17

@flakmonkey wrote:

Had to play on a small board(4x4) terrain mainly in deployment, open in centre.
You were at a disadvantage precisely because he had you covered with all those auto-cannons. How did you two deploy? What order?
@flakmonkey wrote:

Placed is objectives were mainly in/near his deployment zone, I'd set mine up closer to mid-field.
Thismay or may not be helpful.
@flakmonkey wrote:

He went first, and hammered me with auto fire. And that was pretty much how it went the whole game.
Had you considered using your built-in Deep Strike ability or holding things back in Reserve?
@flakmonkey wrote:

Razors came on separately, and got hit by quad fire and got chewed up.
Perhaps taking down the Quadgun first would have allowed you maintain air-superiority?

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flakmonkey
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PostSubject: Re: Struggling with CSM   Sun May 03 2015, 08:36

Board size was all that was available at GW store. Very average little store.

I didn' t really think about reserving. I probably should have keep almost everything back. However due to the large number of spread out cultists(70) in his deployment area, I would've had to come down pretty much in the middle of board anyway.

I should have just blasted away at the Quad. I did fire at it, but the Chaos Lord in termie armour was closer, so he LoS and took cover saver from Aegis when that failed.

He deployed firstr and I failed to Seize.

I think I really need to study the Pragmatic Realspace Raider

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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Struggling with CSM   Sun May 03 2015, 11:10

His list is very well suited to the size of board you were playing on. So suited it might as well be tailored, in fact. Dark Eldar need room to maneuver, specifically across the width of the board, which is why hammer and anvil can give us such a hard time - other shooty armies outrange us, whilst horde style armies have such a large footprint we can't pass them or land behind them. His list will always sit there and shoot, because it can't do anything else. More terrain in the middle of the board would definitely have helped you, but I appreciate that it can be difficult to move stuff in a store.

If the other army wants to sit still, you have to force them out of their comfort zone, and the best way to do that is with deployment of objectives. If you place your objectives where you can hold onto them easily in your deployment zone, then get first blood, he has no choice but to come to you, at which point his whole, unimaginative strategy falls apart. Ok, this falls down if he gets first blood, because then you're in pretty much the same position, but it will at least give you a chance. Whilst there's a lot to be said for placing objectives where you can move up onto them, it's all about timing, terrain and opponent, and it won't work in your favour every time. Often, you want to place them like that because you're mobile and want to move onto them and get into range simultaneously for mid to late game pressure. But if the return fire is still going to be more than you can take even after you've caused the maximum amount of damage that you can, it's not going to be worth it. You don't have to go for the kill (fun and satisfying though it is). Play to the objectives, and don't lose sight of that Smile I once ended up almost literally kicking myself when I got first blood against a footdar army on a city fighting board, then still lost because I wanted to kill stuff and whiffed in a couple of shooting phases. If I'd just hung back and forced him out of cover, I would have mopped the floor with him. A lesson learned!

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shadowseercB
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PostSubject: Re: Struggling with CSM   Mon May 04 2015, 17:39

4x4 may have been an advantage to him. Your list looks fine but I would take out the incubus and/or the wyches and/or the Lhmeans. That may be too much melee in a shooting game that is 7th edition. I assume the Raiders are filled with Kabalite warriors? Bikes are amazing and very versatile so consider getting them, the shooting is good and the hammer of wrath are amazing.

Try and shoot an opening for your melee to get into position for the next turn. This is one of the most challenging armies to play and is very competitive at the same time just give it time. Know your opponents army as well as Your own. I use to loose every game and it took months before I started to win. Now I win most games.

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