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 HoW and Challenges

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Unholyllama
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PostSubject: HoW and Challenges   Tue Apr 28 2015, 15:32

I know that HoW happens at I10 and thus would affect challenge combatants. My question is that if my character (Arena Champion) cannot get into base to base with the unit on the charge yet issues a challenge, would he get HoW since he would be placed in base to base due to the challenge rules?

So charging alone - not in base contact so now HoW. Challenge moves the model into base contact. Would he get HoW this way?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: HoW and Challenges   Tue Apr 28 2015, 15:41

Not really thought about it before but I don't think you could use HoW in those circumstances. In order to get a HoW attack you have to end your charge move in base contact with an enemy model.

Whilst a challenge puts you in base contact, you have already ended your charge move so HoW doesn't work.


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Unholyllama
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PostSubject: Re: HoW and Challenges   Tue Apr 28 2015, 15:51

Good point. Just reread timing of the rules and you're right. HoW is triggered upon the end of the charge movement, prior to the Fight Sub-phase. Challenges are declared at the start of the Fight Sub-phase. So while a successful HoW is carried over into a challenge, a challenge doesn't give extra range to trigger HoW.
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rupie
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PostSubject: Re: HoW and Challenges   Wed May 20 2015, 12:23

I thought hammer of wrath was a free attack at initiative 10. A really interesting chat was had by the MWG team about this very issue in challenges, they did a very through break down. Challenges occur prior to initiative 10, so long as you are in a position to accept a challenge (which if you watch there video points out how close you have to be to issue a challenge to someone). As this occurs before initiative 10 the HoW hits the challenger. Its effectively a free attack.
The segment MWG did was brilliant and really addressed tons of common mistakes with rules.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: HoW and Challenges   Wed May 20 2015, 12:47

As I mentioned above though, you need to end your charge move in base contact in order to trigger HoW. In order to get a HoW attack against a challenger you would need to end your charge move in base contact with them before any challenges are issued.

Do you have a link to the MWG video?

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rupie
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PostSubject: Re: HoW and Challenges   Wed May 20 2015, 13:03

http://www.miniwargaming.com/content/Challenges-Rules-Discussion-Ep-1

This covers sooo much stuff regarding this. its vault only but I will type it out for everyone

the big issue is you must be within 2 inchs of a model in base contact for BOTH challengers to actually be involved in a challenge.
So if my arena champion charges and isnt in base contact HOWEVER is 2 inches away from someone who is, say the space marine sergeant I wish to challenge then before INITIATIVE 10 the challenge is declared. If accepted you swap them into base contact, THEN go onto initiative 10.
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rupie
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PostSubject: Re: HoW and Challenges   Wed May 20 2015, 13:08

No double posts please. Use the edit function. Thanks - Count Adhemar
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: HoW and Challenges   Wed May 20 2015, 13:19

@rupie wrote:
the big issue is you must be within 2 inchs of a model in base contact for BOTH challengers to actually be involved in a challenge.
So if my arena champion charges and isnt in base contact HOWEVER is 2 inches away from someone who is, say the space marine sergeant I wish to challenge then before INITIATIVE 10 the challenge is declared. If accepted you swap them into base contact, THEN go onto initiative 10.

The issue there is timing. Challenges are declared at the start of the Fight sub-phase. Charge moves occur in the Charge sub-phase, ie before the issuing of a challenge. And, as mentioned above, HoW only triggers if you end your charge move in base to base contact.

What might work, I'd need to do a bit of checking to be sure, is if your challenger ends his charge move in b2b with any enemy model in that combat he would meet the requirements for HoW. As he is moved into b2b with the challengee before any blows are struck then he could still make the HoW attack against the challengee.

One thing is for sure though. If your challenger is not in b2b with an enemy model at the end of his charge move he will not get a HoW attack against any model.


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rupie
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PostSubject: Re: HoW and Challenges   Wed May 20 2015, 13:54

he just needs to be within 2 inches of someone IN base contact, so long as the enemy person you are challenging is ABLE to be challenged

but yeah your right. HoW is very very small chance, and getting it right on the charge is hard
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rupie
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PostSubject: Re: HoW and Challenges   Wed May 20 2015, 13:55

Again, no double posts please. Use the edit function. Thanks - Count Adhemar
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: HoW and Challenges   Wed May 20 2015, 14:09

@rupie wrote:
he just needs to be within 2 inches of someone IN base contact, so long as the enemy person you are challenging is ABLE to be challenged

That's just to determine if he is engaged and therefore eligible to issue/accept a challenge. It has nothing to do with HoW.

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shadowseercB
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PostSubject: Re: HoW and Challenges   Sat Jun 06 2015, 16:36

I agree with the timing thing but I still think it is totally worth putting it on a arena champion.

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