HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityFAQUsergroupsRegisterLog in
Share | 
 

 Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
AuthorMessage
Ryu Takeda
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 33
Join date : 2015-04-25

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Thu May 07 2015, 18:23

Updated the document with a new special rule for Arcane Payload, added a Vortex Bomb option for the Voidraven, added a redone Realspace Raiders Detachment
Back to top Go down
The Shredder
Klaivex
avatar

Posts : 2402
Join date : 2013-04-11

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Thu May 07 2015, 18:40

I like the effects for Arcane Payload, but I don't see why they need to be random. I implore you not to resort to GW's hamfisted method of "random = balance".
Back to top Go down
Ryu Takeda
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 33
Join date : 2015-04-25

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Thu May 07 2015, 19:14

@The Shredder wrote:
I like the effects for Arcane Payload, but I don't see why they need to be random. I implore you not to resort to GW's hamfisted method of "random = balance".

Fluff-wise it's a if you didn't make the rifle, you don't know what it's loaded with for sure.  My objective was to remove randomness in power, while adding randomness to how it gets the power...the draining shot one is the only weird one there

Edit: Any suggestions you have would be appreciated
Back to top Go down
The Shredder
Klaivex
avatar

Posts : 2402
Join date : 2013-04-11

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Thu May 07 2015, 19:48

@Ryu Takeda wrote:
@The Shredder wrote:
I like the effects for Arcane Payload, but I don't see why they need to be random. I implore you not to resort to GW's hamfisted method of "random = balance".

Fluff-wise it's a if you didn't make the rifle, you don't know what it's loaded with for sure.  My objective was to remove randomness in power, while adding randomness to how it gets the power...the draining shot one is the only weird one there

Edit: Any suggestions you have would be appreciated

But... what if the Haemonculus using it was the same haemonculus who made it? Or, he was just careful to check his order carefully? Wink

*shrugs* It just seems better to give players the choice of ammunition, rather than irritating them by making it random. Maybe add a restriction that they can't use the same ammunition 2 turns running?

Otherwise, perhaps make it random for Acothysts, but not Haemonculi?
Back to top Go down
Ryu Takeda
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 33
Join date : 2015-04-25

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Thu May 07 2015, 19:49

I can do that for Haemonculi/Haemonculus Ancient...Special Rule Arcane Craftsman: A model with this special rule may select which ammo type when firing a weapon with the Arcane Payload special rule.
Back to top Go down
Rokuro
Wych


Posts : 600
Join date : 2014-11-25

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Fri May 08 2015, 08:47

@Ryu Takeda wrote:
I can do that for Haemonculi/Haemonculus Ancient...Special Rule Arcane Craftsman: A model with this special rule may select which ammo type when firing a weapon with the Arcane Payload special rule.

I think it would be more practical to just treat the Arcane Payload like the Sternguard's special ammo.

_________________
Not making any own interpretations of rules or fluff taking any part in rule or fluff discussions anymore!
Back to top Go down
The Shredder
Klaivex
avatar

Posts : 2402
Join date : 2013-04-11

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat May 09 2015, 17:00

One thing I would suggest is making the Huskblade AP2 and upping its cost to 30pts.

My reasons are as follows:

1) So many multi-wound units have 2+ saves at the moment, which currently make the Huskblade pretty bad to begin with. To put it another way, AP3 just doesn't synergise with the targets you'd actually want to use ID against.

2) It offers no bonus to wound (so you're looking at 5s and 6s against most targets) - so against most 'ordinary' targets, it offers no advantage whatsoever over the agoniser.

3) It actually has anti-synergy with the Soul Trap - since IDing something will mean you only ever get +1 strength. In contrast, the Agoniser can get multiple wounds from mashing a multi-wound character/MC, and gets even better as you quickly end up wounding on 2s with rerolls.

4) IMO, it's the sort of weapon that 'deserves' AP2. It's the sort of weapon that should inspire dread - not just a shrug as SM Captain number 23434 remembers that he's wearing his Artificer Armour against which the Huskblade will struggle to even scratch the paint. Razz
Back to top Go down
CptMetal
Klaivex
avatar

Posts : 2379
Join date : 2015-03-03
Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat May 09 2015, 17:40

But what kind of weapons do the space Marines have with Armour piercing value of 2? Nothing that strikes at normal initiative order.

_________________
+++++INCOMING TRANSMISSION+++++
The Dark Eldar Codex sucks. You probably won just because your enemy loaded his dice to loose. Never forget this mantra and spread the word. Mention it in every discussion possible, people can´t get enough of that valuable information and need to be reminded regularely.
+++++END OF TRANSMISSION+++++
http://www.thedarkcity.net/t12720-tainted-reborn
Back to top Go down
The Shredder
Klaivex
avatar

Posts : 2402
Join date : 2013-04-11

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat May 09 2015, 17:46

@CptMetal wrote:
But what kind of weapons do the space Marines have with Armour piercing value of 2? Nothing that strikes at normal initiative order.

You mean aside from the S7 AP2 relic?  Rolling Eyes


Also, they have Chain Fists, Power Fists, Thunder Hammers and Power Axes. You're right, they don't strike at initiative - but they do strike at S8 and the former can easily punch a land raider to death - whilst the Huskblade can't even scratch the back of a rhino. Not to mention that three of those weapons are wounding virtually anything in the game on 2s and naturally ID T3-4 characters.

Furthermore, marines make up for not striking at initiative by being incredibly durable. Chapter Masters are T4 with 4 wounds and a 3+/4+ to begin with, and can easily be T5 with a 2+/3+. They can even have EW if that isn't protection enough.

Striking at initiative is worthless if we can't actually hurt our opponent. It's like being allowed to fire first in a dual when your gun isn't loaded.
Back to top Go down
Ryu Takeda
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 33
Join date : 2015-04-25

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat May 09 2015, 20:16

I agree, the Huskblade needs something, but I'm hesitant to put reliable AP 1/2 on a weapon with reliable Instant Death on Initiative...but as Grimm has told me, I can't solve all my problems with the Rending Special Rule XD.  And Strength 3 is always the major problem with it, and non MEQ in general

So I'm running a few variations of the Huskblade to see how it could be improved while still ensuring it's not an auto-take...(For instance, The Djinn Blade in this version is an awesome weapon, but with some major downsides to it).  I also want to make sure that improving the Huskblade doesn't invalidate the Klaivex Hierarch or the Succubus (Trying to make sure each HQ has a role...but the Archon occupies the Omni-HQ style slot, so making sure they're not made to be better at all the roles than the others is important...and not as easy as other armies given the lack of Psykers)

I'm running a bunch of tests right now with the following possibilities to examine the Cost/Effective Wound*Effective Wounds Dealt:
S User AP2 Melee, "Lethal Dose" (Using the special rule, for fluff reasons, would be replaced later)
S +1 AP3 Melee, Instant Death
S User AP3 Melee, Instant Death, Rending
S +1 AP4 Melee, Instant Death, Poison (2+)/Fleshbane

In other news...added the Arcane Craftsman special rule to Haemonculi...didn't break anything too bad...added Fleshbane to the Draining shot ammo to bring it up to par with the other ammo types. Got some new ideas for The Masterpiece, since it proved to be impractical but awesome in its current form

Anyone actually convinced their friends to let them try out these rules?  We hopefully haven't made anything too broken

Edit: Note: Those profiles I'm trying out are just for my first batch of trials, they're not necessarily what I'm limiting my considerations to
Back to top Go down
The Shredder
Klaivex
avatar

Posts : 2402
Join date : 2013-04-11

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat May 09 2015, 20:20

I'll see if my friends will let me try any of those rules. Although, I'm not sure how well it would work without the rest of your modified codex rules to put it into context, if you see what I mean.

If it matters, the one that would appeal to me most out of those is the Rending one.
Back to top Go down
Ryu Takeda
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 33
Join date : 2015-04-25

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat May 09 2015, 20:26

I'll put that as two votes Rending (You and Myself)

Also, what did you think of our changes to the Djinn Blade, Shredder? (As we changed Sentient Blade a bit)
Back to top Go down
The Shredder
Klaivex
avatar

Posts : 2402
Join date : 2013-04-11

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat May 09 2015, 20:47

@Ryu Takeda wrote:
I'll put that as two votes Rending (You and Myself)

Heh, fair enough. But, yeah, I'd be happy with Rending as it at least gives a chance to bypass enemy armour (and may make 2+ save guys a bit more nervous about accepting a challenge from him).

Do you think it would need a cost increase if you just gave it rending? Only at its current price and abilities, I pretty much only see it taken for flavour reasons.

@Ryu Takeda wrote:

Also, what did you think of our changes to the Djinn Blade, Shredder? (As we changed Sentient Blade a bit)

Is the Sentient Blade bit optional, or does the model have to double its attack characteristic? If the latter, I honestly can't see myself ever using it. It just seems like a good way to kill yourself, break your shadow field, or both.

If Sentient Blade is optional, then come across as just being a worse Klaive most of the time (which is also +1S AP2 and exchanges an attack for no Gets Hot - I know which I'd prefer Wink ).

I do like the idea, but I think Gets Hot is a bit extreme - especially with -1 to saves (again, goodbye Shadow Field). My suggestion would be to make Sentient Blade optional (if it isn't already), and scale the downside back a bit. Make the basic version have no drawback (so, it becomes a one-handed Klaive), and the Sentient Blade version get hot (but without the penalty to saves).

One other possibility would be the above, but once the user actives the Sentient Blade ability to double their attacks, they can't switch back to the 'safe' version and cannot choose to fight with any other weapon (once the demon is free, there's no putting him back  Twisted Evil ).

By the way, are their any Master Crafted melee weapons in your revised codex?
Back to top Go down
Ryu Takeda
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 33
Join date : 2015-04-25

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat May 09 2015, 20:53

I don't think the Huskblade would need a points increase to gain rending...as I stated, it needs something.

As for sentient blade and its interaction with Shadow Field...I made it optional to use a Shadow Field save...so you could always use your armor/FNP (Depending on the Turn), but you flat out can't use Clone Field for it...but making the use of Sentient Blade optional, or making the Djinn Blade a secondary choice (so remove it from the Can take one of the following list)...or put it in the same list as the pistols.  We've tried out something similar (To the current Sentient Blade re-work) with the Daemon weapons in the Chaos Space Marines codex, but they have arguable more durability XD.  I do like the option to use it, but then you have to use it.

There are no Master-Crafted Melee options in our revised codex as of yet...It hasn't really been needed.
Back to top Go down
The Shredder
Klaivex
avatar

Posts : 2402
Join date : 2013-04-11

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat May 09 2015, 21:05

Oh, one other thing by the way - is the Clone Field limited to 3 counters max, or can it have more?

I ask because if you go down to 2 counters and roll 3 on the d3, you can end up with 5. Just wondering if this was intentional?
Back to top Go down
Ryu Takeda
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 33
Join date : 2015-04-25

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat May 09 2015, 21:16

It's Intentional, max of 5 clone field counters if you're lucky...so a max of 5 D weapon hits to kill an equipped model (If they lead with D-Weapons)...fun quirk of allocating hits instead of wounds
Back to top Go down
The Shredder
Klaivex
avatar

Posts : 2402
Join date : 2013-04-11

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat May 09 2015, 22:16

@Ryu Takeda wrote:
It's Intentional, max of 5 clone field counters if you're lucky...so a max of 5 D weapon hits to kill an equipped model (If they lead with D-Weapons)...fun quirk of allocating hits instead of wounds

Hah, awsome!

Whilst I love a great deal of what you've done in this codex, I think that's still my favourite change. It fits the flavour of the item seamlessly, is fun to use (and actually gives the DE player options), without being overpowered.
Back to top Go down
The Strange Dark One
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 297
Join date : 2014-08-22

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sun May 10 2015, 00:26

I don't know how to feel about an Archon who fights a tank with a weapon which is aimed to pulverize infantry...

I too think similar to Shredder in the way that the Huskblade should be AP2. I never said so, because I thought that Djinn blade being AP2 is already enough, but with changes being discussed about the weapons, I thought I might participate just as well ^^

So, what if the Huskblade would be an AP2 Artefact of Cruelty? It would make sense for such a special weapon like the Huskblade and it doesn't make the weapon an auto take since you can't equip other artefacts.

And since the Succubus and the Hierarch already have AP2, I think the Djinn blade wouldn't be in a bad spot with AP3 and Rending instead of the Huskblade. I think it would synergize quite well with the many attacks and provides some AP2 as well. Maybe tweak the weapon a bit more so it gives less attacks but is less risky to use as well.

Just what I've been thinking.

Edit: Another thing I've been thinking.
What if the Archon could choose between a Webway Portal and a device which could induce night fighting for a turn? Just another small thing.
Back to top Go down
The Shredder
Klaivex
avatar

Posts : 2402
Join date : 2013-04-11

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sun May 10 2015, 15:58

@The Strange Dark One wrote:
I don't know how to feel about an Archon who fights a tank with a weapon which is aimed to pulverize infantry...

Well, to be fail, it would make the Archon as good against tanks as a Haemonculus with Scissorhands. And, I think it's fair to say that Scissorhand Haemonculi aren't exactly wading through dreadnaughts at the moment. Razz

It would also give the Archon a chance to hurt T7+ MCs, though it depends what you think about that.

@The Strange Dark One wrote:

I too think similar to Shredder in the way that the Huskblade should be AP2. I never said so, because I thought that Djinn blade being AP2 is already enough, but with changes being discussed about the weapons, I thought I might participate just as well ^^

So, what if the Huskblade would be an AP2 Artefact of Cruelty? It would make sense for such a special weapon like the Huskblade and it doesn't make the weapon an auto take since you can't equip other artefacts.

To be honest, even with AP2, I just don't see the need to make the Huskblade an artefact. It wasn't remotely broken in the old book, and now you can't just kill a MC and get S6 with soul trap. Also, it's not like other races only get AP2 as artefacts.

The fact is that the Archon just isn't strong or tanky enough to be a major threat - even with an AP2 ID weapon. S3 is a *massive* drawback - as it means he needs 6s to wound many other characters, who'll then get their 3++ against any wounds he does manage to get through. And, in return, even Power Mauls have Instant Death against him, virtually anything wounds him on 2s and his only worthwhile save is removed the first time it fails (whilst costing almost 3 times as much as a storm shield).

An AP2 Huskblade would not be close to overpowered.
Back to top Go down
sweetbacon
Sybarite


Posts : 349
Join date : 2014-02-09

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sun May 10 2015, 18:03

Clearly we don't need Archons to be decent in CC because we have Drazhar for that... Rolling Eyes

...I'll show myself out now
Back to top Go down
The Shredder
Klaivex
avatar

Posts : 2402
Join date : 2013-04-11

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sun May 10 2015, 18:35

It's ok - Archons are also master tactitions, so they can just fall back on their amazing their support abilities like... um... tanking wounds with shadowfield? That's a support ability, right? And truly the mark of a tactical genius.
Back to top Go down
The Strange Dark One
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 297
Join date : 2014-08-22

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sun May 10 2015, 19:03

My bad, I thought the strengh of Huskblades were increased in this version which is why I proposed this. Still, I think it would be reasonable to make it a very powerful artefact (S5?).

_________________
Currently working on: Dark Eldar 7th Codex Redux
A pragmatic custom codex for pragmatic realspace raiders.
Back to top Go down
Archon Rievect
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 132
Join date : 2014-08-03
Location : The WWP behind you!

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Tue May 12 2015, 21:37

I just downloaded this and am reading through it.looks pretty cool but there are some things I may suggest after reading through it all. I for one cannot comprehend the stupid changes made to our equipment an stuff,basically nothing was op and all gw did was make a borderline stand alone army worse..every strength we had or should have ,was nerfed dropped disallowed on now force us to use..cringe..allies.
I personally think of allies as like a spice..you do it to add flavor,you don't do it just to make you r main dish palatable..
I will post up my suggestions when I am done but so far I like the changes.
Back to top Go down
Ryu Takeda
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 33
Join date : 2015-04-25

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Tue May 12 2015, 22:34

@The Shredder wrote:
It's ok - Archons are also master tactitions, so they can just fall back on their amazing their support abilities like... um... tanking wounds with shadowfield? That's a support ability, right? And truly the mark of a tactical genius.

Speaking of which, updated the Archon with a new special rule...yeah, for being a tactical HQ they didn't have a lot of tactical utilty...

also, put in the new Huskblade profile +1s AP3 Melee, Rending, Instant Death

Still working on new wording for Sentient Blade
Back to top Go down
The Shredder
Klaivex
avatar

Posts : 2402
Join date : 2013-04-11

PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Tue May 12 2015, 23:18

I like that profile for the Huskblade.

Not sure about the tactical ability for the Archon though - simply because not everyone plays Maelstrom (with good reason Wink). What about just letting him choose his warlord trait?
Back to top Go down
 
Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 7Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

GENERAL DARK ELDAR DISCUSSION

 :: Dark Eldar Discussion
-
Jump to: