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 Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)

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Ryu Takeda
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat Jan 16 2016, 23:18

Ok...so we've been working on a bunch of new types of things for this fandex, and I'm still in the process of typing up the document.  But here is what we're thinking:


  1. Dark Eldar are a Glass Cannon Army, they have the Glass Part down, give them that cannon.

    • Problem: Increased Strength Feels wrong...increased attacks feels wrong too
    • Solution: Replace Night Vision with Keen Eyes: A model with the Keen Eyes Special rule has the Night Vision; additionally, enemy models must re-roll successful Armor Saves from wounds dealt by a model with this special rule.
    • Benefits: This increases Dark Eldar deadliness across the board, without increaing their efficacy against hoards of models.  With this Wychs gain much needed assistance, without significantly effecting their points value.  Splinter weapons in general gain a major bump in efficacy, so we're considering dropping their AP to - pending testing.


  • Dark Eldar Has only 1 Infiltrator type unit...in an army of Space Drow...who still like to use darkness to their advantage.
  • Wych Cult units rely on getting close to their enemy with arguably the worst kit for doing so

    • Problem: Well, these two problems provided us something to think on, new units where a possibility for infiltrators, but they would overlap with one of the existing Troop Choices too much.
    • Problem: Wyches could always try to use transports, but the Dark Eldar Transports aren't much more durable on the vehicle scale than Wyches are on the Infantry scale...but Vehicles cannot be increased in durability significantly without significantly increasing points cost.
    • Solution: Wych Cult units gain the Infiltrate Special rule.
    • Benefits: Wyches, Bloodbrides, and even the Succubus get closer to the enemy starting out, giving them less terrain to cover to do their job.  Additionally, since they are held off on deployment when infiltrating, it allows you to place them in reaction to where your opponents units are placed.  It also gives them access to Outflank, giving them access to yet another method of deployment later game.
    • Other Effects: Wych Cult Units become very very powerful with this, and while all of us working on this don't feel they will need a points cost increase, we all do feel they might if testing reveals it to be too powerful especially given:

  • Haywire Grenades and Anti-Tank
    1. Problem: Haywire Grenades being a Sergeant only Upgrade makes a bit of sense, if it had carried over. (Given the huge power of the Haywire Special Rule.)
    2. Solution: If all Tau Fire Warriors can take Haywire Grenades, than all Wyches should be able to...maybe at higher points cost, but we're still not sure.
    3. Problem: Dark Lances are very expensive for heavy weapons on an army that relies on mobility. We came up with two solutions:
    4. Reduce Points cost of the Dark Lance...which in turn makes many vehicles less expensive
    5. Make the Dark Lance Salvo 1/1...making it an expensive Blaster if you move, while maintaining long range on models that don't or that have Relentless.



    Well those are some of the big themes we are working on incorporating into a new document. What do you all think?

    As for a Spirit Spirit Probe on a Haemonculus...maybe? I like it as a relic at the least
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    The Strange Dark One
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    PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sun Jan 17 2016, 00:44

    In the last weeks I really came to think about Dark Eldar as both Eldar and Corsairs actually seem to be faster and harder hitting than we are. You seem to be thinking about which way the army should go, so I thought I' share what I've been thinking so far.

    We could just go for "even more speed, coupled with even more firepower", but I think the strengths of Drow/Dark Elves is that they are finesse armies and we should be too.
    I just don't like the feeling that we become more like "Kinky Craftworlders" in bikini armor and big guns.

    We should be different, we should be the dark elite that does not win because of big guns but because we got means to bend the rules of the games to our advantage and have gear nobody else has access too. We are the eldrich abomination that lurks in the shadow and has every kind of trick up its sleeve.


    We are known for speed and while we have adequately fast units it seems like almost everybody has its fair share of fast movement as well and we can't get an edge with just speed anymore.

    And as it stands, our strength is fast deployment and web way portal shenanigans, so what if we try to capitalize more from such things? Don't forget the reason we got poison and lance rules is because Phil Kelly wanted an army that "cheats".
    I think more poison, lances or more firepower in general is just no our style, we need more "cheats".

    In that regard I like that you thought of giving Wyches infiltrate, but I wouldn't Hellions (as Troops) maybe not more suited for this?

    Anyway, things I could think of:

    - Directly assaulting with melee units the turn they arrive from Deep Strike (let us purchase a rule on transports for that matter)
    - More pinning weapons, like "pinning Bolters" for Warriors, so our melee units don't have to fear overwatch
    - Let us pay for the ability to half/reroll scatter distance of Jumpjet units or vehicles
    - More units with Outflank + Acute senses
    - Gives us weapons that deal damage to units inside transports
    - Anti bike/vehicle template weapons for Coven (did I hear corrosive liquifier?)
    - Reserve Manipulation is a must
    - We have problems with "Ignores Cover" weapons, so let us have a "Shadow Disruption Field" that nullifys the effect of ignores cover.
    - Grav weapons for Coven (considering everything they have, Grav would almost seem "mundane")

    Now, the Codex you have made already has potent stuff and if we would put the things I just mentioned on top of it, it would be op. So, I am talking about this from the standpoint of our current Codex but I thought you be inspired by some of the ideas.

    All I wish is having back the "Terror" Dark Eldar are supposed to spread on the battlefield and let us feel like a master tactician while we orchestrate the rules of the game to our will.

    Btw. I love that Pain Engines can have the Deep Strike rule for that matter.
    And regarding your Dark Lance thoughts, I think the idea of a "Dark Laser" which I've seen in another fan dex would be a really great addition to Dark Eldar in general: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Codex_-_Dark_Eldar_Angry_Emo_Edition

    I also got an idea for Hellions. What if they had "Envenomed Blades" on their Skyboards that can be used as a weapon as well? It could generate extra close-combat poison damage every time this unit charges or is being charged. It would pair well with Hit & Run in that regard.


    And I too think a spirit probe would be more fitting on a Haemonculus than the PFP + 1. But I would advise to remake the Haemonculi in general, as I've said in the past already Razz
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    Leninade
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    PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Mon Jan 18 2016, 22:17

    The problem with Dark Eldar is perfectly highlighted by the fact that we have some of the most maneuverable units in the game, and weapons that ignore vehicle facing. We are at the fundamental level antisynergistic
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    CptMetal
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    PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Tue Jan 19 2016, 06:26

    Well. Even if you're fast, against a smart guard player you can't get the rear Armour of a tank if he doesn't want you to. At least not if you don't want snap firing or deep striking.

    For me the Lance accounts for some kind of cheating just like the poison weapons. Why not giving us more of those?

    Or, you know, just make soulfright weapons viable.
    Unit can get hit multiple times
    More leadership shenanigans
    ATSKNF and fearless just get a bonus

    Voilà. Viable and fun army. (if we still ignore witches)

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    HokutoAndy
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    PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Wed Jan 20 2016, 02:37

    @Leninade wrote:
    The problem with Dark Eldar is perfectly highlighted by the fact that we have some of the most maneuverable units in the game, and weapons that ignore vehicle facing. We are at the fundamental level antisynergistic

    That's the hallmark of 40k 3e design, give an advantage in one field then take it away for a vague sense of 'balance'. "Eldar plasma tech is far more advanced than the imperium's" better reduce it's strength! Eldar vehicles move 6"-12" faster than Imperial ones? Better shorten that Brightlance's range by 12" too! Then some years later the IG start fielding fast skimmers of their own with triple twin linked lascannons...

    You'll also notice that every newer list (even the Admech, which is part of the imperium) is fielding less "This is their version of a lascannon" and more "here is their anti-tank weapon with their own unique feeling. If Eldar were a 2015 new release you'd probably see less "Eldar lascannon" "Eldar plasma cannon", and more unique weapons that fulfill a similar role in a distinct manner.

    Something I've thought about is "So, what WOULD an Eldar Bright/Darklance look like if I just looked at its fluff and didn't worry about making it a lascannon equivalent?". We know it's a very energy efficient weapon with great piercing power, doesn't overheat after hundreds of shots, and has a very high ammunition capacity per power pack so...

    36" s7 ap2 heavy 2 lance*
    (or rending, which would make worse against av13/14 but still have a chance of hitting it)

    Stats like that brings to mind a weapon that feels faster and more efficient than the s9 heavy 1 imperial lascannon. Mathhammering it out it outperforms a lascannon against every av but 12, is outperformed by an assault cannon against AV10-11 (and equivalent against av12), while s7 means no instant death vs t4.

    This would also mean blasters are s7 assault 2, making them gain an additional "shoot this at terminators" role compared to assault 1 heatlances and fusion guns. (Heatlances should probably get bumped up to s7 so it's a better weapon against all kinds of armor) As for the starcannon that would be made obsolete at its current stats, I'd have it be more like the 3e disintegrator, an ap2 blast weapon with an alternate fire mode.

    Quote :
    Or, you know, just make soulfright weapons viable.

    The Harlequin's hallucinogen grenade effects would be a good it. That's basically "take a pinning test, take an unsavable wound if you fail".


    Last edited by HokutoAndy on Fri Jan 22 2016, 04:32; edited 1 time in total
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    Leninade
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    PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Wed Jan 20 2016, 19:47

    The lance rule has no place in an army that at its core is centered around flying around the enemy and hitting them where they can't afford it. Our entire design should be based around short range weapons, with options for ignores cover and more variety than s8 ap2 and s1 poison, hitting vehicles in the rear, and a morale shattering charge
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