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Grimcrimm
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Tue Jun 30 2015, 18:43

@The Shredder wrote:
That popping sound you just heard was every marine player's eyes shooting out and bursting on their computer screens.
its a universal special rule never says marines HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE

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Ryu Takeda
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Wed Jul 01 2015, 13:16

Got some initial new Rules/Power From Pain Tables we've been working on, want to know what all of you think:

Kabalite (Warriors, Trueborn, Archons, Scourges): FNP (6+), Fight or Flight? Yeah, Right

  1. Nothing
  2. Relentless
  3. FNP, Relentless
  4. FNP, Precision Shots, Relentless
  5. FNP, Precision Shots, Relentless, Preferred Enemy
  6. FNP, Precision Shots, Relentless, Preferred Enemy, Monster Hunter, Tank Hunter


Covenite (Haemonculi, Wracks, Grotesques, Talos, Cronos) Increased Toughness, FNP

  1. Nothing
  2. Fearless
  3. Fearless, Fear
  4. Fearless, Fear, IWND
  5. Fearless, Fear, IWND, Crusader
  6. Fearless, Fear, IWND, Crusader, Eternal Warrior


Cultist (Succubi, Wych, Bloodbrides, Hellions, Reavers): Add FNP (6+)

  1. Nothing
  2. FNP
  3. FNP, Furious Charge
  4. FNP, Furious Charge, ATSKNF
  5. FNP, Furious Charge, ATSKNF, Precision Strikes
  6. FNP, Furious Charge, ATSKNF, Precision Strikes, Smash?


Incubi (Incubi, Klaivex Hierarch): Remove PfP, gain FNP and something?


Fight or Flight? Yeah, Right: A model with this special rule ignores BS penalties associated with being embarked on a trasnport, or on a building's battlements (This includes any results from the Vehicle/Building Damage Tables, as well as the penalty for a vehicle moving Cruising Speed)  Note: Models with this special rule still count as moving if the transport moves combat speed.
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daveyo
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Wed Jul 01 2015, 15:01

Dislike. The fluff behind pfp is about the eldar drinking pain and souls to become increasingly crazed and agressive. The standard table does this and the coven table makes them more ignorant of damage. I think the mechanic of pfp is lazy...but is easy to manage.
What needs changing is an army-wide speed and stealth boost.

Too many ideas for one comment bu here are 2

Ravager-5pt upgrade. Corsair Gunners.

The gunnery crew and pilot are veterans of countless dogfights and engaging the enemy at range. All 3 Ravager guns can fire at full BS even at Cruising speed. Additionally the Ravager gains the split fire rule

Wyches - additional rule. Counter attack.
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daveyo
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Wed Jul 01 2015, 15:03

Strike from shadows the rsr rule should definitely be shrouded turn 1 and not stealth
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The PayneTrayn
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Wed Jul 01 2015, 15:34

I like the kabalite table; my big buff was BS5, but precision strike feels more fluffy. For covens...i'd say boost FNP even more rather than crusader. For cult, I imagined a WS/I boost later on; maybe a "wound against initiative" rule? Lastly: A PFP table for vehicles would make sense, as their reflexes heighten from the surrounding agony...
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Nariaklizhar
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Fri Jul 10 2015, 15:50

So I played a game with these home-brew rules yesterday and one big concern came up. Real quick, here was my list: Succubus with wyches, 2 gunboat raiders, 2 ravagers, and balsterborn. We played 1000pts. the biggest concern was Wychees, specifically being too powerful. The new wychesuit may need to be changed. Instead of -1 penalty to opponents attack both ranged and melee, I think it should be -1 penalty to opponents BS and WS. This way, the opponent who has a high BS/WS doesn't get too big of a penalty. For example: my opponent's Autarch shot his fusion gun BS6, and could only hit on 3+ based on how the rules are written. if what was just -1 to BS, he would still be able to hit at 2+, just wouldn't get to reroll. I hope I explained that right. Also, the combat drugs may be too good. I had the drug roll of rage and plus 1 to strength. Turn 4, I had my Wyches at strength 6 because of furious charge, and 4 attacks each on the charge. it was crazy. Too powerful. Any ideas on how to tone them down a bit? i don't like the idea of just adding more points to their base cost. Keeping them 10pts would be ideal
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Grimcrimm
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Fri Jul 10 2015, 22:17

@Nariaklizhar wrote:
So I played a game with these home-brew rules yesterday and one big concern came up. Real quick, here was my list: Succubus with wyches, 2 gunboat raiders, 2 ravagers, and balsterborn. We played 1000pts. the biggest concern was Wychees, specifically being too powerful. The new wychesuit may need to be changed. Instead of -1 penalty to opponents attack both ranged and melee, I think it should be -1 penalty to opponents BS and WS. This way, the opponent who has a high BS/WS doesn't get too big of a penalty. For example: my opponent's Autarch shot his fusion gun BS6, and could only hit on 3+ based on how the rules are written. if what was just -1 to BS, he would still be able to hit at 2+, just wouldn't get to reroll. I hope I explained that right. Also, the combat drugs may  be too good. I had the drug roll of rage and plus 1 to strength. Turn 4, I had my Wyches at strength 6 because of furious charge, and 4 attacks each on the charge. it was crazy. Too powerful. Any ideas on how to tone them down a bit? i don't like the idea of just adding more points to their base cost. Keeping them 10pts would be ideal

Mind telling me who won the game, what turn, and how many points each player got, and while were at it a rough approximation of how many army points were left of each players army. these would help a ton.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Fri Jul 10 2015, 23:14

I won on turn 5, however it was over after turn 4. I played my buddy's imperial fists. I held my wyches out of line of site till turn 2. On turn three I flat outed behind enemy lines and again out of Los. Turn 4 I diembarked and charged his 7 man devastator squad, killed all of them. I was then able to consolidate into a bit of cover. This was his last real anti tank left. After that I was able to pick off the remainder of his army. Earlier, my ravages popped some rhinos, and my deep striking blaster born killed his dread.
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Grimcrimm
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Fri Jul 10 2015, 23:26

Was it a deathmatch or objectives?, if it was just play till i kill most of your army then it seems to me you just out played him. any more info will help. Was this 7th or 6th space marines.

If your friend is cool with it play against him again and see if he does better against the second time, technically playing against a new codex afterall.

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Nariaklizhar
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Fri Jul 10 2015, 23:40

Three objectives. 1 on each side, 1 in the middle. This was 7th edition. What's your take on what I mentioned earlier about the wychsuit
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Grimcrimm
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat Jul 11 2015, 15:46

Personally i feel That a wych is a highclass gladiator and knows how to dodge most danger that comes her way, but thats me ill make it known to everyone and we will look into it

Do you feel the wyches won you the game entirely?

And sorry for all the questions just want to look at this from every angle and thanks for the feedback so far

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat Jul 11 2015, 18:38

No, definitely not. I just think that for 10pts each, they may be overpowered now. For how they are, they should be closer to 13-15 pts. I'd like to keep them at 10 points. To do that, they would have to have some things taken away. Maybe like the combat drugs being just one bonus, not 2. For example: just plus 1 attacks. Not plus 2 attack and hit and run
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat Jul 11 2015, 21:31

Is this assessment from only a single game? If not, see if you can play a second game and if it plays out the same. It could be or it could be the will of the dice gods. I would give them a shot for a few games of my own but I have no friends who play the game and those who tend to go to the stores I go to wouldn't be interested in playing with a homebrew.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sun Jul 12 2015, 00:29

I have another game on Monday. We shall see how it goes
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Demantiae
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Fri Jul 31 2015, 11:06

Had a brief look at these rules. Some of it I really like. Some I feel is inappropriate or too strong.

Eternal Warrior: This is a band aid effort to cover one of the weaknesses of the DE army - T3 HQ's. Throwing this on HQ's just cheapens the rule and the reasoning behind assigning it to characters. Sure plenty of S6 weaponry can ID the DE but then all this S8 Darklight can ID T4 characters too. This is a weakness that should be present in the DE and that should take some work to overcome. My suggestion is to change the rules of Soultrap. Instead of giving S boosts it has the Soul Leech ability. If the wielder kills an enemy in close combat before any wounds have been lost then that model receives 1 bonus wound that grants immunity to the ID effects of the first ID death wound they receive. If you want your Archon to not be insta-gibbed then you have to get them into combat asap and take something down. Still you have to be careful as you only get ID protection once. You should have to work to get immunity to ID on the DE.

Archons: Not sure I like the Ancient Archon. Do the DE really need a 4 wound guy with WS and BS 8? I don't think they do. The ARchon should get Haywire 'nades for free, on a par with the CE Autarch. They should get Ghostplate Armour as default, why are they sing substandard armour? I don't think they need access to 3+ when they have shadowfields and clone fields to protect them. Again, super protection should come at a cost and involve cautious use of your Archon. Love the Great Tactician rule, this is something the DE can really benefit from. Like having Combat Drugs back but the double dose thing never really made sense. makes more sense for a Succubus to double up. Archons shouldn't be relied upon for being CC monsters, that's the job of the Succy. Lastly remove Wych Suit. Not only does this not make sense fluff-wise but adding penalties to hit an Archon who already has stupid high saves or funky clones absorbing all damage is too much.

Haemonculai: I like the return of the junior units and taking them in groups. Should be some formation rules for taking Haemonculus Covens (3-5 of them in a unit together).

Incubi: I like adding them to the Court, not sure about all those 2 wound models though. Unless you go through every single codex and 2 wound models everywhere there's no real justification for throwing out 2 wound guys (same applies to all the squad leader upgrades). I like that counter-Attack is added to the Klaivex, this is something that makes perfect sense for the Incubi but I don't like those grenades they were given. Firstly creating a new grenade type just for them seems unnecessary. Secondly I like that Incubi lack plasma 'nades. I really don't think their martial philosophy involves charging headlong into entrenched positions with vanguard assaults. That's the job of the Hellions or Wyches. Incubi should be counter-attacking or protecting their boss or being used as a hard hitting reserve to break a tough and stubborn enemy. The extra S is nice on their weapons but the stats of the demi-klaive don't seem to address the problem they have in the codex of being statistically inferior to the two-handed version. I like the new Incubi HQ choice.

Kabalites: Don't like giving them upgraded armour or carbine weapons. They're vat-grown slave warriors, they get what they're given. Keep them cheap and reasonably effective and move on, so Kabalite Armour and Splinter Rifles only. Take away the Haywire Grenades. I know the DE enjoyed them last codex but these things are powerful and should be reserved for specialist combat units, not rank and file troops.

Wyches: Make the Dodge rolls work through overwatch as well as CC. They shouldn't be straight 4++ though. Not only is too strong on troop units but it makes no sense to be able to dodge mass firepower at range. Sure in overwatch because you're doing acrobatic crap that makes aiming harder, but at range that won't work. Reduce the -1 to hit to a simple -1 BS to hit. Wyche suits should be providing a modicum of stealth/silhouette manipulation to make it harder to shoot you. But some people are just to good a shot to miss. Also I don't see how this would work in CC without clone field or flickerfield style technology. Wyches need some mroe protection yes but not too much, they should still be pretty "glass". You have to rely on skill to keep them alive not powerful rules. I like the Wyche Blades and Wyche Weapons changes, makes them actually useful in combat. I don't like the Choice Cocktail. This cheapens the CD roll and gives you an effective 50% to pick the result you want. Given that the #6 result is way stronger than the rest on the table this is broken. You should be able to pay for rerolls but not pseudo-choosing the result you want. Remove the Rage rule from the #6 Grave Lotus drug. +1 S and +2 attacks invalidates the #4 Adrenalight +1 A Hit & Run Drug. How are they balanced against each other? #6 should be +1 S and Shred maybe.

Mandrakes: Nice buffs to Mandrake weapons to make them a solid choice. Remove Demon though, give them back Fear. Demon would make them vulnerable to stuff that demons are vulnerable too. I know Mandrakes are all strange and warped but I'm not sure they're actual demons. You can maybe give them some kind of Warp Aura or something to give them a 6++ but anything beyond that I feel is too strong for a unit that's getting 2+ cover saves most of the time. Again, you shouldn't try to patch too much over DE weakness (to ignore cover in this case). skill should be the deciding factor of success not rules.

Trueborn: No need for Wraithplate, give them Ghostplate instead. DE shouldn't really be getting 3+ saves outside of pain engines. Ghostplate is the prestige armour of Comorragh. Give them Shardcarbines default too. Again they're the prestige warriors and like the wealthy Scourge merc clan can afford the best gear. The Dark Kin rule is very much needed on Trueborn to make them competitive in points. Unit size should be 5 minimum. They should have access to Haywire Grenades as the lists second tier anti-tank infantry. Venom transport capacity should be raised to 6 in line with other factions AFV style vehicles (Falcons, Razorbacks etc). This will allow for 5 man Trueborn to be accompanied by an HQ without forcing funky unit sizes on you.

Bloodbrides: Uncanny Quickness is a great rule.

Wracks: Being potentially troops helps. there's no need for separate Coven FO charts with extra Elite slots. Makes no sense. Marry the DE codex and Haemie supplement together.

Hellions: I think the skyboards should come with the Bladevane rule. Makes no sense that they strike with S4 in combat but HoW with S3. What are those blades on their skyboards for if not chopping off heads? Give them the ability to use their jump packs in both movement and assault. This would ensure they get into combat much more reliably.

Reavers: no need to give them extra special weapons. They're not meant to be tank hunters, what specials they do have are for trying to crack open transports so they can assault their contents afterwards. No need to alter the 1 weapon in 3 rule that already exists.

Scourges: Better Landing is a welcome addition considering how strong Swooping Hawks are at landing. taking an extra weapon the Solarite gives them a stronger line up and actually makes taking the upgrade worthwhile in some circumstances. I don't like adding Dissie Cannons to them or some of the other weapons. Outside of Haywires, Heat Lances, Blasters and occasionally maybe Dark Lances for anti-armour or Splinter Cannons or Shredders for anti-personnel I don't see the point of extra options. You can get mass Dissie Cannons from Raiders/Ravagers. Scourges should be more specialised for anti-armour or should be roaming anti-GEQ squads (which they're plasma grenades and Shard Carbines make them very good at being). they should have the option to take Haywire Grenades. These are the guys that should be charging vehicles in the assault after trying to shoot them up, Scourges are definitely your specialised anti-tank troops. I don't agree with increasing the range of Heat Lances though. The addition of Better Landing makes using them safer in a DS role. Also the addition of a Haemie with wings and WWP makes landing them a piece of cake. No need to remove a weakness of the weapon when the unit has built in advantages to make using it less risky. Combined with Haywire Grenades this makes Heat Lance Scourges as deadly as Fire Dragons once on the table.

Venoms/Raiders: Nice changes. Air Fighter and Aerial Assault are much needed (especially the buffs to moving Cruising Speed). Venoms should have a capacity of 6 though and Raider should have 12 in line with other factions vehicles. Do we need Shard Cannons? Can't the pinning rule be transferred to Splinter Cannons? Maybe Splinter Cannons that fire at max salvo shots gain the pinning rule? Makes sense to buff the existing weapon rather than create an entirely new one (that's almost identical) just to add some pinning to the army.

Razorwing: I like the addition of Vector Dancer and Hunter.

Chronos: Making Spirit Probe default makes sense.

Tantalus: I like the Pulse Disintegrators. Makes the Tantalus feel like a prestige vehicle. Also I don't like DE vehicles having more weapons on them than they can fire at 100% effectiveness. Why would they design them that way? 2 Pulse Disintegrators pump out a lot of shots and lets the vehicle fire at 100% without Aerial Assault. Maybe you could upgrade the weapons to 2 Twin-Linked Dark Lances if you wanted more anti-armour? I don't like the 21 capacity at all. 16 sense fine to me. A 15 man squad plus HQ, or upto 8 Grots. I don't feel the need for it to carry 10 Grots plus HQ. If you want that you should WWP in your 10 Grots. Plus 20 Kabalites with Twin-linked Splinter weapons is gonna murderize anything it hits. Lets tone it down a little.

Ravager: I don't feel they need Void Lances. This is why you have a Void Raven. Ravagers work through being cheap and overwhelming enemy armour with number of shots whilst knowing that at any time a single shot could rip through and explode a vehicle. 3 Void Lances would make the platform both too strong in shooting and too risky to field. you'd need to throw every shield you could on it and hope it didn't die turn 1. Better spread your firepower across multiple Ravagers. Also I don't think the Void Lances need to be S10. Always damaging on a 2+ vs any armour strength is too much, especially when fielded in banks of 3 on a single model (potentially 9 such shots in a single Detachment). S9 and lance is fine.

Void Raven: Tone down the Void Lances back to S9. Extra bombs are nice and it's good to see the missiles not costing the earth. The addition of Stealth is welcome. Maybe this also needs Vector Hunter though? It should be ale to jink and still have some effectiveness, because you're gonna want to jink it with the added stealth.

Lastly I like the addition of blind to the Darklight weaponry. Adds a nice dimension to the DE's strange weaponry.

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Nariaklizhar
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Fri Jul 31 2015, 13:42

Yeah, I took out blind in the rules as it was too powerful with my style of dl spam
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El_Jairo
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Wed Aug 05 2015, 17:49

@Demantiae wrote:
Had a brief look at these rules. Some of it I really like. Some I feel is inappropriate or too strong.

Lastly I like the addition of blind to the Darklight weaponry. Adds a nice dimension to the DE's strange weaponry.

I didn't want to quote your whole post as it is very extensive but I would like to say that I agree with most of your comments.
I have the impression that we have the same feeling of Dark Eldar. Sure it needs to be a glass cannon but don't take away too much glass elements and don't poor in too much gunpowder in the cannon Wink

Tactical mobility, feint manoeuvres and units synergizing should be the way the Dark Kin overcome their enemies.

Here are my 2 cents: I don't get it why you gave each character in a unit 2 wounds. Is this a thing in your gaming group? I'm not feeling it in any case. Characters should have slightly better stats and access to better gear to outperform their subordinates.

I saw you gave almost all wych cult units S4, why? I rather see them killing opponents with a thousand cuts or precisely placed hits in joints of armour or killing the opposing character to break morale.

Another thing I don't get is moving Grotesques to troops? A 35 points per model troop choice? This seems strange to me, wracks makes more sense.

I'm big fan of Wych Cult but I don't think that Wyches should be able to kill elite CC units.

I would suggest the following changes (drop Wyches points to 9 as you did and BB , just because every codex is getting point decreases ;p):
-Dodge: 5++ vs Overwatch and Exploding vehicle damage, 4++ in CC and 3++ in a Challenge.
-Counter-attack on Wyches and BB (as CC is their favourite sport !)
-Wych Weapons:
Hydra Gauntlets: I don't think you need to change this, maybe just decrease the cost to 5 pts
Razorflails: Blade Whip and Rending vs non-vehicles, 5 pts
Shardnet & Impaler: 2 CC weapon, per S&I in the unit, reduce opponent WS by 1 when they roll to attack, 5 pts
-Blood Weapons: 1 point per model and give them the old 3rd Edition Wych Weapons rules: Half opposing units WS (round up) and reduce number of attacks by 1 (to a minimum of 1)
-Blood Brides cost 13 pts per model 5-15 models WS 5 and keep the other stats.
I would give the Hekatrix and Blood Syren +1 WS.

I wouldn't touch the combat drugs rules, at least your version seems too powerful.

Generally speaking I don't like Haywire Grenades on close combat units, so I personally wouldn't give them to Wyches, Blood Brides and Kabalite Warriors.
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Demantiae
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Thu Aug 06 2015, 04:49

@El_Jairo wrote:

I didn't want to quote your whole post as it is very extensive but I would like to say that I agree with most of your comments.
I have the impression that we have the same feeling of Dark Eldar. Sure it needs to be a glass cannon but don't take away too much glass elements and don't poor in too much gunpowder in the cannon Wink

Tactical mobility, feint manoeuvres  and units synergizing should be the way the Dark Kin overcome their enemies.

Yes DE need the glass but they also need the cannon. That cannon should be firing tiny little shards of glass and wielded by a hundred different specialists. The Death From a Thousand Cuts should be more than a few nasty paper cuts!

The issues DE have is having to spam sub-par darklight to take down basic armour and their inability to deliver their CC units into combat safely (and their inability to do anything when they get there). I think Deldar units should each be specialised, with a certain purpose and that multiple units combined are effective in bringing down what they target. I don't feel they should be Eldar specialised, i.e. Scourge should never have the anti-tank capability of Fire Dragons, Blood Brides shouldn't be better than Scorpions/Banshees in their specific roles but they should each be heavily focussed on something but not entirely weak at other things too. Deldar should be somewhat versatile representing the higher amount of individual initiative and cunning each warrior would possess (Deldar don't send fools into battle, the fools end up as slaves). Deldar units should be able to focus the right tools in the right place but still have a little versatility just in case. And the Darklight needs more punch for it's role so you're not spamming 10 lances to bring down a couple vehicles, you can bring 6 and turn the other 4 into Disintegrators.

A case in point of this philosophy is the Scourge unit. You take 4 Haywire/Lance (or maybe Blasters in specific circumstances) on them every time. But they also have the Shredders that can murder hoards if you need them to. But often overlooked are the Shardcarbines. they're greet assault weapons for softening up a unit before a charge. And Scourges have assault grenades so they're capable of charging an opponent in cover. With Furious Charge and a 4+6++/5+++ save they can be pretty handy in close combat in a pinch. You're primary anti-tank infantry can be quite nice in CC against anything that isn't considered strong in combat.

Another example is the Splinter Weapon in general. Kabalites are good for shooting up basic enemy troops just like the troops of any codex are. Troops are usually there for bulk fire that can whittle down enemy troops. But our cheap Kabalites can bring down MC's and super-tough enemies something other armies would specialists to achieve. And Kabalites aren't exactly pushovers in CC too with their decent WS and Furious Charge + Fearless thrown on top.

In the old codex Wyches had some of this philosophy with their Haywire Grenades but I never like the marrying of that weapon with this unit. Combat units shouldn't be sporting these grenades, they're not a weapon for combat specialists. They're a weapon for fast moving tank hunters and support units or for cheaper sapper/suicide squads. Swooping Hawks in the Eldar codex are the perfect chassis for Haywire, I think Scourge should have the option to purchase them too. Though they differ in role (Hawks I consider support/mobile reserve units, Scourge are pure tank hunters) they both have the mobile speed and the hunter mentality. I put Trueborn in this category too. They're a good hunter unit that can specialise in whatever you need them too with their access to good weaponry. Give them the option of Haywire Nades too and they can properly hunt down tanks if you need them too. And giving the the same carbines and armour as Scourge means they can even be useful in an assault or useful for bringing down troops without weapon upgrades.

As well as addressing the few major holes in the army list (lack of pinning/blind, anti-tank being spammy instead of incisive, CC units being way under par) there's an overall lack of synergy that needs addressing. Units don't really support each other outside of happening to do damage to the same units. Raiders should be sporting Phantasm Launchers (or whatever they're called) that pin enemy squads as well as damage (and feck Speshul Marines it should affect them too) so the combat guys can safely get in there. Something should be blinding. I've not discounted the Darklight blind thing as shooting a lance at a unit of troops is kind of a waste unless you really need that blind (and combined with Darklight being stronger means you won't have as many of the things in your army). Wyches should be good enough to pin stronger combat squads in place (with their Dodge keeping them alive) so the Incubi can charge and clean up the turn after. things like this. Your opponent shouldn't be looking at your units and say "so this unit does this and this one does this" they should be thinking "where' will they concentrate first? how are these units gonna be used? What combo's will they pull out?" It shouldn't be obvious what you're gonna do with your army when you place it on the table. right now it kind of is. You know who the Scourges are going for, you know where the Grots are gonna charge. But if half you're army has the potential to charge, if pinning/blind/fear is coming from multiple sources, if fire can focussed onto anything and melt it then it's impossible to predict where the DE will attack and which parts of your army will melt first (and when). The opponent won't be able to rely on his army holding up and thus will have a hard time planning for anything.

The DE don't need much of a change to get to this place but it's certainly where they should be. And it'd still take skill to play with them.

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Ryu Takeda
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Thu Oct 08 2015, 01:48

It's been too long since I've responded, but we have been re-evaluating some of the rules from feedback, but are holding off on updates until after we see what GeeDubs does to Tau. To address some of the concerns that are here:

Darklance and Blind - While this is powerful with Darklance Spam, it being an initiative test makes the blind special rule not as powerful against some of the other armies (and completely irrelevant against some). Can I ask, for those of you who feel it is strong, what codecies you regularly face where this is making the difference?

Wych Cult Units - I like the average number of wounds that S4 allows the Wyches to put out, but I can look at finding a way to deal those through other avenues other than strength (such as number of attacks etc.)

2 Wound Characters - That's an artifact from earlier development...before we gave their Characters Other bonuses other than Ld when being taken...so will probably be being removing that 2nd wound overall.

3+s on Non Incubi - I actually agree here, will have to run it by everyone else though. Ghostplate is strong enough...just trying to get good pricing down.

Haywire Grenades - This is something we're waiting to see from the Tau Codex, I know tau are no CC Specialists, but with Haywires this largely doesn't matter. We have a fundamental idea that Troops choices should be able to Threaten all general units in some way (Such as the Imperium's Krak Grenades...) so will look into other avenues to pursue...or just limiting the number of haywires on specific units.

Wych Dodge and Wychsuits - Dodge should already read as 4++ during the Assault Phase. This means that they are their 4++ vs Overwatch. Wychsuits additional defense being re-evaluated to a -1 BS rather than -1 ToHit

Ancient Archon and Eternal Warrior in General - The T4 was partially me being overzealous on that 4 key, so because Eternal Warrior should be T3. On Eternal Warrior in General, this is meant as a change because we didn't want to do named HQs directly, rather make ways to make your named HQs with the parts available...so the Ancient Archon is supposed to be a stand in for Vect...I think you could quickly figure out who's supposed to be who from there. Eternal Warrior on the Super HQs is to try to support their Values as either Force Multipliers, or expensive beat-sticks while still being fragile enough to take down.

Archon's Kit - The Wychsuit on the Wych-synergizing options is so they can roll with the Cult units...Since the Wychsuit's benefit only applies if the whole unit has them...will re-evaluate with the possibility of a special rule to prevent single archon shenanigans. Drug Options are so you can build The Duke...Melee Options where just changed to be slightly more viable...they might be too powerful, but so far haven't had too many problems on our end.

Combat Drugs - I wanted to only add secondary rules to the Leadership one...but someone had to have all of them give the same number of rules...Will probably be changing (Although a lot of the rules we are waiting to see what GeeDubs does with Tau's Force Multiplier Powers).

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Mon Nov 02 2015, 06:45

Ok, updated a few things on the document. One removed Wraith-Plate...instances where units could take wraithplate they can take ghostplate (modified points costs accordingly).

Combat Drugs Secondary Rules removed from most of them.

Wychsuit Wording Changed

Archon's Kit changed slightly

Still messing around with Haywire Grenades...I get that some people want them on Wyches and Others don't...but Tau Fire Warriors can all take them, and even Space Marine Assault Squads have Krak Grenades (Seems like we're running into issues with the Haywire rule itself from a balance perspective rather than an anti-tank grenade option).

2 wound character development artifact removed.

S4 on Wych Cult units removed, instead increased attacks by 1 for now (pending a more thorough lookthrough at death of a thousand cuts options).

Wychsuits changed to penalty of WS/BS rather than ToHit.

Removed Realspace Raiders Formation (for now) in favor of something that is ready to actually show off:
Now with 50% more decurian...still a WIP but we needed more feedback and ideas.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Mon Nov 02 2015, 07:30

https://docs.google.com/document/d/144Q2OhWUvMcf6CqEioLPQ-KxadPd1VZdTdx0whjgWlY/edit?usp=docslist_api

So here is my version of what u guys have started. More of the notable changes are with Wyches, Incubi, Trueborn, and Ravager, however there are a few minor differences throughout. I have to say, until you guys posted these homebrew rules, I was kinda in a dark eldar funk. Over the last few months though my buddies have let me try out these homebrew rules and it has brought new life into the gaming experience. My buddies have come up with a few cool suggestions along the way. By no means are the dark eldar in these new rules overpowered btw. Instead I find them more fun, and units finally make more sense; they play how dark eldar should play
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Ryu Takeda
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Mon Nov 02 2015, 23:56

@Nariaklizhar wrote:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/144Q2OhWUvMcf6CqEioLPQ-KxadPd1VZdTdx0whjgWlY/edit?usp=docslist_api

So here is my version of what u guys have started. More of the notable changes are with Wyches, Incubi, Trueborn, and Ravager, however there are a few minor differences throughout. I have to say, until you guys posted these homebrew rules, I was kinda in a dark eldar funk. Over the last few months though my buddies have let me try out these homebrew rules and it has brought new life into the gaming experience. My buddies have come up with a few cool suggestions along the way. By no means are the dark eldar in these new rules overpowered btw. Instead I find them more fun, and units finally make more sense; they play how dark eldar should play

Reading through it now...btw, I like to sanitize fandex materials of unchanged rules, unchanged points costs, and unchanged profiles just to try to make things a little easier on the venue in which I post it (in the hopes that GeeDubs might not get mad at them in the off-chance they see it)

Looking at it on someone else's document, my Command and Conquer References seem really Corny...and I still love it
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Nariaklizhar
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Tue Nov 03 2015, 16:11

I never played that game so completely missed them. Im sure other people noticed them though. Now if you made references to LOTR or some old Nintendo games like excite bike or tecmo bowl, I'd be all of that!
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Fri Nov 06 2015, 00:15

I've been thinking of an alternative to Haywire Grenades...something like a Darklight version of a Plasma Grenade...

Profile(s) I'm starting to experiment for are as follows:

Void Grenade? 8" S4 AP4 Armourbane, Blast, Blind, Lance

Counts as Assault Grenade, works on Vehicles and MCs in CC

Void Grenade? 8" S4 AP2 Armourbane, Blind, Lance

Counts as Assault Grenade, works on Vehicles and MCs in CC



Another grenade we're looking at for Wych Cult Units:

Neurox Grenades/Poison Grenades 8" S1 AP5 Blast, Poison (4+)

Counts as Assault Grenade, works on MCs in CC
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Nariaklizhar
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Wed Dec 02 2015, 00:02

Personally, I wouldn't change our haywire or plasma grenades. There is nothing wrong with the suggestions you came up with, but it just doesn't seem necessary. How about something like Kabalite grenades? Same stats as haywire however, can be purchased at 2pts per model (Kabalite only of course) difference is its one time use.

On a different topic, I was toying around the idea of the heamonculus ancient being able to take a spirit ptobe? Too powerful? Maybe modify it to 30pts, affects unit, not 6 inches, only one per army? What do you guys think?
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