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 Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)

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Grimcrimm
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PostSubject: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat Apr 25 2015, 18:43

A group consisting of my friends and I have been spending too many hours trying to make every codex playable, fluffy, and relatively balanced. We have done our best to erase trap choices or replace them with items worth taking, and giving more options to things that needed it. So without further ado here is our take on Dark eldar 1.1 . This is still in need of polishing but we feel its all framed right. if you could look it over and tell us what you think, whats too powerful, what is still terrible (hopefully nothing), what breaks the game horrendously and would render it completely unplayable and the spirit of the game ruined forever virtually unplayable to all but the most elite! let us know.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QibEBvS_ckbmKmNWePpCoJ0FKcJnekBU9pB-2krqvI0/edit?usp=sharing

Please excuse formatting weirdness google drive has some issues for different browsers.

Other than balancing we would like some help with fluff for new items added, most should fit but some are out there.

Edit: Yo shredder we found your venom blades
Edit 2: Linked the Right Version, Points costs or profiles that aren't listed are unchanged from their current versions

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Last edited by Grimcrimm on Sat Apr 25 2015, 23:11; edited 1 time in total
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat Apr 25 2015, 20:40

Wow, that has some really creative and fluffy stuff in it. I thought about tinkering with the Codex on my own, but didn't have the time.

When I look at your list, it makes me actually want to field some melee units. I don't know if its competitive, but I'd love to see a Syrens running around with a Huskblade >: D

Among the things I like most are:
Variety in shard weapons, all HQs (wings on Haemonculus, how awesome would that be?) and embarked Shard carbines (for incubi).

However, isn't the Void Lance being str 10 a bit over the top?

To be honest, I think the Shredder should be our equivalent to flamer weapons. IIRC monofilament weapons cut through everything.



I know you are probably not going to take suggestions, but I just have to share the things I wrote down when I had the idea of changing some of the rules. Note that I am not very experienced and I got most of the ideas when reading the DE books.


One thing I remember from reading the Dark Eldar books is that the Hexrifle can have many different types of ammo and unless you were the one who loaded it you can never really know what it does. So, I'd suggest a special roll at the start of the game like Combat Drugs which determines the effect of the weapon.
Those effects could include: poison, lethal dose, str +1, ap-1, ignore cover or a weaker soul blaze effect.

Or you could make this an Acothyst exclusive rule with the effect being the rolled to wound number.
Another approach would be making a Coven-exclusive formation which consists only/mainly of Wracks and give them this "experimental payload" list (somewhat similar to Grotesquerie).
Maybe even allowing a whole unit of Wracks to wear a Hexrifle?

Another thing I remember about the DE books were the Wych fights. They constantly dodged melee attacks and struck when they had the opportunity to land lethal strikes. This could conver nicely into a pseudo-rending rule which works only on infantry units.


Also, why shouldn't the Ravager be able to mount Void Lances? Obviously, they would come at a price (maybe 10/15 points a piece?) and have to be str 9.


Other than that I always thought that the Solarite should be relentless.
There is zero reason in taking a clost combat focused IC with them, in return I might even increase his cost to 15 points because of the additional cheap Dark Lance.
I mean what's the point in having access to heavy weapons if they only limit the mobility of them?

Also, I'd give Scourges the option to take Disintegrators. I think it is a good weapon and you could use it on an infantry uniting unit of Scourges (don't know how competitive that would be but I'd love to try it, especially with shardcarbines effectively costing less).

Also, why did you remove Heat Lances and Haywire Blasters on them?


Another fluffy suggestion is about the Voidraven. It is supposed to be a stealthed non-plus ultra Bomber. Why shouldn't it have stealth to compensate for the low AV and cost a bit more in return?
Moreover, since the Void Mine should be an absolutely devastating weapon, wouldn't it make sense to make it a D weapon? Obviously, this would need quite an investment in points as well.


Sorry, just had to share this xD

Edit: added another suggestion for Wracks similar to other coven formations.
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Ryu Takeda
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat Apr 25 2015, 21:31

Grimm accidentally posted a link to an older one I kept for reference, I'll get him to update the OP when he gets online (registered an account to say this). It already addresses some of the problems (like the missing heatlances/haywires).

Voidraven should be stealthy...but giving it stealth means that you gain no benefit from Nigh Shields (Unless...you know...change the working on Night Shields to be just like Tau Disruption Pods). As for Voidlances being S10, the way I always understood it was that Voidlances where the beginning of anti-Void Ship weaponry, so they would need to have extra strength to (even with Lance) be able to put good damage on most race's voidborne vessels. As for the Voidmine being Strength D...interesting...but would require such a hike in points cost to justify I don't think the Voidraven would be practical (Strength D Large Blast...or even a Blast would be very powerful)...but the Voidraven having access to some sort of Strength D weapon might be something to look into.

As for your other issues...look carefully into what Wracks can take again, should clear up one of your ideas (we where thinking the same thing), and re-examine the unit type of Scourges

I like the idea of Experimental Payload...or Unknown Payload for hexrifles btw...I just couldn't think of 3 where they where all good enough to not feel like you got cheated out of the one you wanted without being extremely overpowered.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat Apr 25 2015, 21:38

Did you guys put the special characters back in?
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat Apr 25 2015, 22:24

I'm at work now if you see this takeda post the link and ill copy pasta it into the OP,

About special characters we made it so you could build your own, we want there fluff to be remembered though

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat Apr 25 2015, 22:30

I would edit but I cant figure out on mobile we forgot headhunter mandrake man but otherwise most bases are covered

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat Apr 25 2015, 22:30

Edit: I just want to say that I can become a bit over enthusiastic when thinking about such gameplay concerns ^^. I think everything is about right and doesn't need too much editing besides some playtesting I suppose. After all, I think DE should still be a challenging army to play which must make the best out of the options they have, so they should not be able to to really have everything for every occasion.


Cool, I will certainly have a look at it once it's up. And thanks for actually considering what I was writing Smile
I also totally forgot that you already only need to roll a 2 to hit with Void Lances... shows how often I use them Razz
Yeah, I have a clearer image of the Voidraven now and I like it quite much.

My thought behind the D Mine was that the Voidraven does not come equipped with one, but you can equip a Mine just in case you know you will need it (it might as well just start with some other missiles like the Razorwing). This way you only need to balance the default Voidraven and must not have in mind that it can deal D damage, but rather see the mine as a price extra just in case.

Now that I think about it, I woudn't give the VM a Large Blast but instead a second explosion mode, where the shielding radius is smaller but amplifies the effect to an even more catastrophic degree(therefore, D).

There are just too many things I like from reading your "Codex", but I kinda have a weak spot for your Wracks in particular. All those options, ranging from hand liquifiers to the possibility of a full Wrack sniper unit (which I totally overlooked).

Regarding the experimental payload, I know that it would be though to find the correct set of abilities, but it certainly would make fun describing exactly what each payload does with the unfortunate victim xD.

Btw. I just feel like the Ravager should have different AT options. What if it could also mount lascannons for +5 points? While it's not an amazing weapon either, it would finally give us a better option against against not quite so high AV vehicles.

Oh, and did you guys read the DE books?
I am asking because of the "Castigators" which appeared in the last book and it's something I've always wanted to see. To make them more special they could be exclusive for a special character similar to the Incubi Guard.

Edit: Didn't you mention the forgeworld Reaper on purpose?


Last edited by The Strange Dark One on Sun Apr 26 2015, 12:23; edited 1 time in total
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Grimcrimm
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat Apr 25 2015, 23:02

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QibEBvS_ckbmKmNWePpCoJ0FKcJnekBU9pB-2krqvI0/edit?usp=sharing

Adding this to op later got this from a steam message its the finished-ish version  version

Hope this works, also to all concerned Intend to edit and delete posts when I get home, Ineed to clean this up a bit

Edit: OP Updated

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat Apr 25 2015, 23:40

We haven't read the books go ahead and describe em

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sun Apr 26 2015, 01:27

Basically Castigators are Wraith constructs on crack.
It are Wrathiguards and Wraithlords constructed by commorites.

They are far less elegant in design and better armored armor and equipped with additional weapons.
Also, they are missing limbs or have amputated limbs to keep them quick and agile despite extra blades and energy projectors.

Only so much I can tell without spoiling too much, here is a more in depth description:
Spoiler:
 

The reason why I thought that they should be tied to this special character is because I don't know if they could fill a role within a DE army as your document already covers all important aspects. So I just wondered if you were aware of their existance, in case you think there is something interesting that could be done with them.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sun Apr 26 2015, 07:05

That may have been the most metal thing ive ever read

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sun Apr 26 2015, 08:05

Personally, I'm not a fan of homebred rule. Too much danger of wishlist fulfilment.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sun Apr 26 2015, 10:35

CptMetal wrote:
Personally, I'm not a fan of homebred rule. Too much danger of wishlist fulfilment.

I agree, it does tend to spiral down into wish listing in my experience.

But if people find the current rules are making the army too challenging to play then good for them if their community lets them use their own home-brew rules. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sun Apr 26 2015, 12:44

Mushkilla wrote:
CptMetal wrote:
Personally, I'm not a fan of homebred rule. Too much danger of wishlist fulfilment.

I agree, it does tend to spiral down into wish listing in my experience.

But if people find the current rules are making the army too challenging to play then good for them if their community lets them use their own home-brew rules. Smile

While this is possible, it should be worth noting that not only DE players involved.
I see this more as an attempt to make DE a more diverse faction, so it is not only about spamming the few good units we have (Voidraven, Mandrakes, Wyches, Incubi and Archon anyone?). And seeing the huge missed opportunity our 7ed Codex is and how much good our fluff is, there is a serious potential to make DE a much more interesting force, without making them op.

Naturally, it takes much playtesting and polishing, but that's why they want the feedback from TDC after all and I think some experts who looks into it would help a great deal Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sun Apr 26 2015, 13:30

I liked my mandrake unit. They killed a wave serpent in close combat. But I use other we models to represent that unit. You have to use them accordingly to their abilities. I know
Easy said. Difficult to do.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sun Apr 26 2015, 13:45

As much as home-brew is fun, I find it such a nightmare to get games with it in most gaming groups that I tend to give it a wide berth. As soon as you start winning with home-brew people are quick to lambast your custom rules and call them OP. There's no escaping that in my experience. But best of luck all the same. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sun Apr 26 2015, 15:31

Whenever people say 'homebrew' instead of 'homebrewed,' inside my mind I tear my face off like Geena Davis in Beetlejuice. (Yes I know both are correct, technically.)
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sun Apr 26 2015, 15:40

I understand your learyness of homebrew, but this isnt just one codex, we are working on all of them. Im the only DE player in the group this wasn't wishlisted but the questions why dont they have this?, or Why does this only have one option? were asked a lot. What we are trying to do is add choice to all codexes, if one unit is unplayable or eclipsed by another we see this as a failure. If see any broken rules or wargear let us know, but this is about the power level were trying to put everything.

By the end of this all codices should be fun and competetive

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sun Apr 26 2015, 17:30

Lots of options
I like that

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Wed Apr 29 2015, 11:13

you had me at this:

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Hellion Skyboard +10 Pts
Reaver Jetbike +15 Pts"
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Fri May 01 2015, 13:44

Just had a quick look, and this looks really excellent.

You've shown far more creativity and ingenuity (not to mention effort) than anyone on the GW design team.

I really like your changes to the HQ section. The Archon now has a lot more options (that aren't crap), the Haemonculi don't need the Coven Supplement to be worth a damn (and I love that the ancients now basically have Father of Pain), and the Klaivex Hierarch gives us the option of a tougher HQ. Since one of my biggest bugbears about the current codex is that the HQ section makes me lose the will to live, I can't emphasise enough how great a job I think you've done. Smile

But, I think my favourite thing I've seen is your idea for the Clone Field. You've managed to fit the flavour perfectly, whilst also making it much more interesting and useful than its current incarnation.

Really well done.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat May 02 2015, 09:31

We fixed up some errors on equipment stats, right now our focus is the tau dex and putting CHAOS back in csm

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat May 02 2015, 18:47

The Shredder wrote:
Just had a quick look, and this looks really excellent.

You've shown far more creativity and ingenuity (not to mention effort) than anyone on the GW design team.

I really like your changes to the HQ section. The Archon now has a lot more options (that aren't crap), the Haemonculi don't need the Coven Supplement to be worth a damn (and I love that the ancients now basically have Father of Pain), and the Klaivex Hierarch gives us the option of a tougher HQ. Since one of my biggest bugbears about the current codex is that the HQ section makes me lose the will to live, I can't emphasise enough how great a job I think you've done. Smile  

But, I think my favourite thing I've seen is your idea for the Clone Field. You've managed to fit the flavour perfectly, whilst also making it much more interesting and useful than its current incarnation.

Really well done.

Thanks for the feedback, any and all is very much appreciated.

Updated again with a little more housekeeping, and added in a few options that really make sense to be there (although, I don't know how fluffy/flavorful our names for new options are)
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat May 02 2015, 20:52

I suggest renaming the Rending Blade to Flickersteel Blade. That is the canon name for Mandrake weapons after all.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eldar homebrew ( or Balanced 40k and you)   Sat May 02 2015, 22:18

Rokuro wrote:
I suggest renaming the Rending Blade to Flickersteel Blade. That is the canon name for Mandrake weapons after all.

Thank you, did not know that, done
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