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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sat Apr 18 2015, 12:02

Seer Council:

   2 Farseers
   1 Warlock Conclave

They harness Warp Charges with 3+


Farseers and the Warlock can be on bikes if need be. This is looking like a GREAT Psychic support Deatchment for DE, 3 ID Psyckers that can cast some amazing powers (guide is primaris powers)

What do you think?

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sat Apr 18 2015, 12:08

That council can only be taken with a guardian host. Too bad.

But I won't take Eldar allies anymore. Makes me feel dirty. Like bringing a gun to a sword fight.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sat Apr 18 2015, 15:31

Depending on the restrictive nature of the Guardian Host tax, I may definitely run one. I run Freakshow lists, so I'm pretty dependent on allied psykers.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sat Apr 18 2015, 17:07

Quote :
That council can only be taken with a guardian host. Too bad.

Depends if it is a Formation or not. And it looks like it is a Formation.
Same as in Codex Necrons or Khorne Daemonkin.

Even then the Windrider host also includes Farseer + Warlocks. And the jetbikes and 1 Vyper is not a tax worth mentioning.

I would rather think about how to squeeze a Hemlock in as it has D-Scythes, is a lvl 2 psyker and can roll Telepathy.
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Caldria
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sat Apr 18 2015, 17:29

It's not a normal formation - it's a "formation" that can only be taken "in-house". It is exactly like the necron's decurion detachment - you can't take just a canoptek harvest allied with another detachment. You need the Reclamation Legion first.

Same in this case - you need the guardian host first.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sat Apr 18 2015, 17:34

@Caldria wrote:
It's not a normal formation - it's a "formation" that can only be taken "in-house". It is exactly like the necron's decurion detachment - you can't take just a canoptek harvest allied with another detachment. You need the Reclamation Legion first.

In fact, you can.
There is no such thin as "a formation that is a formation but different from a formation because I think so"

It is a formation. Period. Same as the Dark Artisan or Grotesquerie.

An example for something you may not take without the decurion detachment would be Deathmarks as they are no Formation.

The advantage of taking formations into the decurion detachment is that the formations couns as part of the decurion and thus gain all command benefits that the decurion gets.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sat Apr 18 2015, 18:17

Are Hemlocks losing Mind Shock pods?
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sat Apr 18 2015, 20:23

No. Those formations are 0-12 per guardian battle host. No guardian battle host, no formation.
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Caldria
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sat Apr 18 2015, 20:49

If you've seen the leaks - it says (0-12 of these per guardian warhost or w.e its called)
and in those 0-12 slots is the Seer Council "formation"

So no it's not the same as the grotesquerie or dark artisan, I'm not just "thinking" it - I know it, unless the leaked pics of the codex were photoshopped, there is unfortunately no way of taking the formations without first taking the core one (which is the same in the necrons codex by the way - you cannot use those formations on their own, you need the reclamation first).

Now, to offer a solution - you could take the vastly cheaper and less restrictive Windrider Battlehost as your core - which is 1 farseer, one warlock conclave, 1 unit of Vipers and 3 units of jetbikes. Then add in the Seer Council formation. That is the cheapest way to get the Seer Council that manifest warp charges on a 3+

Otherwise you could just take the core Windrider battlehost (without adding the seer council) which is forced to take a warlock conclave anyway and give them jetbikes and there's your seer council (albeit without the 3+ warp charge success ability) Which obviously defeats the purpose as you specifically want the seer council formation for their special rule.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sat Apr 18 2015, 20:59

Quote :
No. Those formations are 0-12 per guardian battle host. No guardian battle host, no formation.

Yes, these formations are 0-12 in the special Eldar Warhost detachment, same as CAD has 0-3 Fast slots.
You can always go CAD and pick up any formation you want.

This is true for all of the Formations in previous codices as well.

You can go CAD necrons and pick up any formation from the book you want. However this is a seperate detachment if you do so and does not benefit from command benefits.
If you pick up the reclaimation, the reclaimation + all formations do count as a SINGLE detachment thus granting the command benefit to all formations as well.

So please stop arguing about something that is clearly written in Codex Necrons as well as in Codex Khorne Daemonkin.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sat Apr 18 2015, 21:01

@Caldria wrote:
If you've seen the leaks - it says (0-12 of these per guardian warhost or w.e its called)
and in those 0-12 slots is the Seer Council "formation"

So no, I'm not just "thinking" it - I know it, unless the leaked pics of the codex were photoshopped, there is unfortunately no way of taking the formations without first taking the core one (which is the same in the necrons codex by the way - you cannot use those formations on their own, you need the reclamation first)

Thats the "NEW" FoC for the NEW books. It works like the Necrons Dex...

The Seer Council is a formation for Ally and for normal CAD Purposes. In the New Eldar Book it states it is a Formation.


The New FoC works like this:

1-3: Guardian Battlehost
0-3: Regents of the War Host
1-12: Guardian Host

There are 13 different sets of options in total to Pick. BUT only 8 of them are Formations

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sat Apr 18 2015, 21:06

From the Necron/Daemonkin Codex:

Quote :
The most common of these are the Combined Arms and Allied Detachments. Note that you can also include any of the Formations presented in this section as part of a Battle-forged army.
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Caldria
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sat Apr 18 2015, 21:13

Fair enough, though I've never seen anyone think of it that way until now - I'm surprised more people haven't thought of cherry picking all the best formations then like canoptek harvest.

Then I guess I'm wrong and that's really cool - I feel like its not that simple though. But either way, the Eldar codex is gonna become 40k's whore with all its formations being cherry picked if this is true (like the 1 wraithknight with no other tax at all).
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sat Apr 18 2015, 21:18

Quote :
I'm surprised more people haven't thought of cherry picking all the best formations then like canoptek harvest.

They have, but canoptek harvest is better within the decurion as the decurion command benefit adds +1 to reanimation protocols in ADDITION to the harvests formation bonus.

Quote :
(like the 1 wraithknight with no other tax at all).

Not possible as the 1 Wraithknight is no formation. You can only pick formations this way, not every entry.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sat Apr 18 2015, 21:30

Seer Council+Heroes Path+DE will be kinda funny to play. So much LDmalus stuffs!

There's any formation with the Hemlocks?
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sat Apr 18 2015, 21:32

Sadly no, no Hemlock Formation. the only Flyer Formation is the one with the 3 Crimson Hunters.
On the other hand if you want Seers anyways you can ally in a CAD as 2x3 Windriders is not a terrible tax.
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Caldria
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sat Apr 18 2015, 21:43

By the way, how can you tell what is or isn't a formation? For example, every single thing to do with the decurion detachment in the necron codex has the formation icon. They all have - Formation: <list of units>

Including the core Reclamation legion. From what I've seen of the codex/white dwarf leaks of the Eldar detachment, It doesn't show whether it is, or is not a formation - and the symbol it has is the same as all the other auxiliary entries (due to it obviously also being an auxiliary entry).
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sat Apr 18 2015, 22:15

Quote :
By the way, how can you tell what is or isn't a formation? For example, every single thing to do with the decurion detachment in the necron codex has the formation icon. They all have - Formation: <list of units>

Nope.
If you look closely in Codex: Necrons, you will see in the Decurion:

Royal Court
Reclaimation Legion
Judicator Batallion
Destroyer Cult
Canoptek Harvest
Star-God
Flayed Ones
Deathmarks
Annihilation Nexus
Living Tomb
Deathbringer Flight

Now you go to the Dataslates at the End of the book and there you go:

Royal Court -> Formation
Reclaimation Legion -> Formation
Judicator Batallion -> Formation
Destroyer Cult -> Formation
Canoptek Harvest -> Formation
Star-God -> no entry, just unit entries
Flayed Ones -> no entry, just unit entries
Deathmarks -> no entry, just unit entries
Annihilation Nexus -> Formation
Living Tomb -> Formation
Deathbringer Flight -> Formation

Quote :
From what I've seen of the codex/white dwarf leaks of the Eldar detachment, It doesn't show whether it is, or is not a formation

Yes it does not show, but as a rule of thumb: "If it has a bonus, it is a Formation"

All of the Formations in the Necron and Daemonkin Codex have boni while the "normal entries" (Star God, Flayed Ones, Deathmarks, War Engines, Lord of slaughter,..) do not.


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Caldria
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sat Apr 18 2015, 22:18

Fair enough. Thanks for the info and clarification - I guess If I played necrons or chaos I might've picked up on it, first time an army I own got this new detachment thing.

A ton of these formations then seem crazy good as addons for dark eldar.
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sat Apr 18 2015, 22:21

Quote :
That council can only be taken with a guardian host. Too bad.

I think you can take them separately, you just wont recieve warhost bonus (always run 6"). And to have it you must adhere to Warhost restrictions ( I.E. Take Core + Auxililary + Command formations).

I guess you will still be able to take CAD + Aspects Formation. At least that sounds naturally if you want to sell lots of stuff.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sat Apr 18 2015, 22:25

Quote :
A ton of these formations then seem crazy good as addons for dark eldar.

More the other way round as some Eldar units get buffed quite heavily by the one or other Kabalite unit (namely WWP or assault vehicles).
On the other Hand the Aspect Warrior host seems to be a perfect addition to realspace Raiders as you can add BS5 Fire Dragons to FA Venoms (better and chaper then Blasterborn), Banshees to FA Raiders (WAY better than Wyches) or even Dark Reapers on Venoms (make MEQ cry)
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Caldria
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sat Apr 18 2015, 22:32

Yeah, thats true - At least Eldar now have a no scatter deepstrike option too with the falcons. So a webway archon isnt always needed I guess. Unless you really do need those raiders. Although I guess I'm going a bit off topic now.

For me personally the seer council formation is my favourite as it finally gives me a way to run an Ulthwe army which is my favourite craftworld.

But with regards to allying with DE, that many warp charges - with that many possibilities in getting the awesome defensive buffs that work so well with dark eldar units like the shrouding, invis, fortune on 2+ shadowfield saves etc. and them passing those tests on a 3+. I'm liking where this is going. I mean a full seer council will give you 16 warp charges +d6

And with passing the tests on 3+ we can throw less dice at the powers than every other psyker in the army has to to be efficient and still get the power off.
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sun Apr 19 2015, 00:36

I'm not sure if the 1 -12 units for eldar "Guardian Hosts" are formations but the one that concerns Wraith Knights is Wraith-Constructs..."1 Hemlock Wraithfighter, Wraithlord or Wraithknight.

This week's White Dwarf calls the Guardian Hosts (1-3) a formation. It describes Gaurdian Hosts..."A smaller Warhost might have one such formation, while a great warhost could have one of each (or three of the same). Appended to the Guardian Hosts are a number of auxiliary units..."

So if the "auxillary units" are a formation, it looks like you can take a single knight or a single hemlock wraithfighter. If they are simply add-ons then it seems you will have to go to CADs, etc...
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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sun Apr 19 2015, 03:57

@Dark Lance wrote:
I'm not sure if the 1 -12 units for eldar "Guardian Hosts" are formations but the one that concerns Wraith Knights is Wraith-Constructs..."1 Hemlock Wraithfighter, Wraithlord or Wraithknight.

This week's White Dwarf calls the Guardian Hosts (1-3) a formation.  It describes Gaurdian Hosts..."A smaller Warhost might have one such formation, while a great warhost could have one of each (or three of the same).  Appended to the Guardian Hosts are a number of auxiliary units..."

So if the "auxillary units" are a formation, it looks like you can take a single knight or a single hemlock wraithfighter.  If they are simply add-ons then it seems  you will have to go to CADs, etc...

The Codex has been leaked... 1/2 of them are formations. I will be buying it next week and Even if I can DL it right now I still wont believe everything 100% until its in my hands next week.

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PostSubject: Re: Seer Council Formation... best DE allies??   Sun Apr 19 2015, 06:18

@Cerve wrote:
Seer Council+Heroes Path+DE will be kinda funny to play. So much LDmalus stuffs!

There's any formation with the Hemlocks?

That's what the Freakshow lists rely on. The -4 to -5 totals are super easy to get now.
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