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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Thu Apr 16 2015, 11:24

Will wait for the codex but I fully expect Eldar to remain the top dogs in 40k with this release. Even Necrons won't want to fight them now, with all those D-weapons floating around.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Thu Apr 16 2015, 12:44

Indeed, whilst much of it will be overkill against a typical DE army, the fact that as a gargantuan creature the wraithknight will be able to target each of those heavy wraithcannons at a different target, whilst only being wounded by poison on a 6+ will make a big difference when we face off against them.

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average joe
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Thu Apr 16 2015, 15:35

I have to be honest reading these and the other eldar codex thread posts has been extraordinarily amusing. I can't wait to find out how badly GW may have screwed up (again) and subsequently how angry highly competitive tourney players will become.
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Caldria
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Thu Apr 16 2015, 15:59

And then all over the world people will start to bash even more on Eldar players, whether they play the broken stuff or not, on principal for being Eldar players - even when it isn't the whole codex that's broken.

As good as it is that the codex wasn't nerfed into oblivion, I don't like how all these buffs are going to affect the game now - so many people are already saying how "All Eldar players can now put their wraithknights on the shelf as no one will allow them" or "I will be declining every game against an eldar player now"

joy...
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Thu Apr 16 2015, 16:11

I will still play them, barring a few cheesy potential lists. I will however retain the moral highground if I get pounded into the dirt. Laughing

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Thu Apr 16 2015, 16:12

I'm going to wait for the full codex but it's certainly looking like they took the strongest codex out there and buffed it through the roof. Utterly insane!

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Black Death
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Fri Apr 17 2015, 09:10

I just got done going thru my bits to find more shur cannons and scat las's. Now let the converting begin! I own 50 jetbikes now and while I have waited since seeing the pic, 8-9 years ago, the new models are so beautiful but now not in my budget, the dex will be pushing it but have to have it. I made my own autarchs on jetbikes, farseer and warlocks so....my big thing right now is I want to take an all jetbike allies list; 50 elder, 27 reavers and 4 harli mixed with nothing but skimmers and flyers around the 2k size just for SnG's.

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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Fri Apr 17 2015, 19:24


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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Fri Apr 17 2015, 20:32


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Black Death
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Fri Apr 17 2015, 20:57

Can't wait for the book, then we have to get used to the new stuff, again. So far sounds like some of the fixes I was hoping for may be true.

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Siticus the Ancient
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Fri Apr 17 2015, 21:15

@HERO wrote:
http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2015/04/17/rumor-it-eldar-craftworld-codex-about/

LOL

And just like that, my fluffy wraith-centric Eldar force turned from playable in casual games to an insane monstrosity. What the hell are they even doing in Nottingham. I wanted a good, solid DE book. I didn't get that. Now, I wanted a book that's largely the same except with nerfed Wave Serpents and usable Banshees. I got that, plus so much more that I hadn't even seen in my wildest dreams.

I am at a loss for words.

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spellcheck2001
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Fri Apr 17 2015, 22:26

Seriously. They gave us orks, dark eldar, blood angels, space wolves.......and then NECRONS and now THIS! Sooo disappointed in the game right now. I know it is a knee jerk reaction, but I feel really bad about this

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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Sat Apr 18 2015, 00:27

Before the sky falls - ITC and other tournaments will likely disallow ranged D-weapons. That means your going to field that WK with cc d-weapon or suncannon. Course it has stomp too. So yes it is strong but at 295 pts ( confirmed base cost ) and an LoW ... meh. It is not really OP. There are some counters to GMCs. Hierodules have been around awhile and are not over running tournaments.

I'm more concerned about bikes but - they have a piss poor LD. Kill a few and they run like little girls. So they are not without risk. I will say that they now serve as anti FMC. A 6 man unit can ground an FMC and the rest of the list can kill it. Those bikes will pulling light AT duty, AA duty and AI duty with ease. I think thirty bikes are the sweet spot (six units of five).

Eldar will need a bit more than just bikes to be competitive. But they have it - warp spiders will still be good. Wraithguard will excel. What they have done is exchange wave serpent spam ( all those shots) for bike spam. Bikes are darn good but in the end are still just meq toughness.

Now having said all that - yes, Eldar are still strong. The nerf to wave serpents will be quickly forgotten. I expect to see grav centurions, IKs etc., in marine lists as counters. Necrons will use Decurion and flyers. De get nothing that helps a lot unfortunately so they might have to ally in there own Eldar. We suck against GMCs unfortunately.

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Sat Apr 18 2015, 09:33

Nerf of wave serpents? A once per game S6 assault 2D6 ignores cover weapon isn't that bad... The tank is still only 110 points. But the most I fear the bikes and that one can spam the super cheap wraith Knight. I wanted to integrate Eldar to create my own corsair army. Now I'd feel dirty.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Sat Apr 18 2015, 11:47

@egorey wrote:
Before the sky falls - ITC and other tournaments will likely disallow ranged D-weapons. That means your going to field that WK with cc d-weapon or suncannon. Course it has stomp too. So yes it is strong but at 295 pts ( confirmed base cost ) and an LoW  ... meh. It is not really OP. There are some counters to GMCs. Hierodules have been around awhile and are not over running tournaments.

I'm more concerned about bikes but  - they have a piss poor LD. Kill a few and they run like little girls. So they are not without risk. I will say that they now serve as anti FMC. A 6 man unit can ground an FMC and the rest of the list can kill it. Those bikes will pulling light AT duty, AA duty and AI duty with ease. I think thirty bikes are the sweet spot (six units of five).

Eldar will need a bit more than just bikes to be competitive. But they have it - warp spiders will still be good. Wraithguard will excel. What they have done is exchange wave serpent spam ( all those shots) for bike spam. Bikes are darn good but in the end are still just meq toughness.

Now having said all that - yes, Eldar are still strong. The nerf to wave serpents will be quickly forgotten. I expect to see grav centurions, IKs etc., in marine lists as counters. Necrons will use Decurion and flyers. De get nothing that helps a lot unfortunately so they might have to ally in there own Eldar. We suck against GMCs unfortunately.


But with the way the Book works you can have 1-12 Wraithknights...... Grav Cents was already common in SM.

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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Sun Apr 19 2015, 04:42

Grav cents are common yes. They will become even more so. SM will need tham. I think we can agree that ranged Strength D, Scatriders, and any distort units ( d-scythe d templates  - really) are somewhat overpowered especially considering their cost. This is nothing new. Every new codex brings us units like that. And every tournament learns to adapt. Certainly Eldar is going to be force.

And yes, the loss of laser lock and a once per game only most definitely balanced wave serpents. Why even play them now when you get better dakka cheaper elsewhere? They are a decent transport still but I would rather have bikes as troops and I think most competitive players will go that route.

D-scythe Wraithguard are another matter. A minimum sized squad is throwing out five auto hits that on a 3+ cause a penetrating hit with d3 hull points. No cover. No FNP when templating meq/teq so only invulnerables will help you. A squad averages seven kills on the charge and over watch is going to kill you if you charge them. Very nasty indeed.

I will say this. The first DE player that drops a d-scythe WWP squad on me or a bunch of them in a raider is going to get hit with a dreadsock ... that is just a nasty unit. Another unit not discussed much that is going to see action is the hemlock. TWO heavy d-scythes, and Lvl 2 telepathy. WTF were they thinking?

But I maintain the sky is not falling. We have dealt with invisible deathstars. We have dealt with Flyrant spam. We dealt with the old Eldar with fire dragons, warp spiders and wave serpents. Soon we will deal with rad spam skitarii. GMCs are not new - Hierodules, Stompas and IKs are seen at events frequently enough.

Admittedly:
-We asked for a fair and balanced codex that did not make Eldar the top tier list it has been for three editions now.
-We wanted  Serpents to be less dominant but every other unit in a strong codex received a buff or a points reduction.
-We did want aspects like banshees and flyers like hemlocks to be playable. No one wants unplayable units.

So GW did what it always does. It ignored the possible combinations and allied shenanigans the codex could spawn. Now we are stuck with it for a year at least and for certain GW will compwensate by making every new upcoming codex powerful enough to at least play on the table with Eldar. This has been the trend anyway. Introduce very powerful units and models to the meta and see what happens.

Until we get tournament results I'll reserve my final judgements. I've avoided this discussion on my thread as it would be the only topic responded to ... lol. It is not that I haven't considered possible lists and broken builds - of course as the Duck I have. I know DE players can easily ally now with Eldar and produce some nasty combos. But I'm not playing tournaments am I? And the buffs to aspect warriors might make for some fun and very playable lists without the spammed bikes and distort weapons. This is a nice change.

Phoenix lords and aspect warriors  - if we believe the rumors  - are now eminently playable. In fact the exarch powers are better than many a warlord trait. Swooping hawks are like screamers and reavers but have haywire when passing over vehicles. Banshees can actually make assaults. Warp spiders will be much harder to kill. Some of the lords are beats. Jain Zar is a cc monster. Maugan Ra will be doing some major damage. It goes on. So th codex has opened up possibilities of some very entertaining lists.

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Sun Apr 19 2015, 17:58

Alternatively, they'll do exactly what they did last time - realise "oh crap", and scale every other book back in order to not run around with everything being OP.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Sun Apr 19 2015, 18:03

@Panic_Puppet wrote:
Alternatively, they'll do exactly what they did last time - realise "oh crap", and scale every other book back in order to not run around with everything being OP.

Aye... Khorne Daemonkin in between a strong Necron Codex and an absurdly strong Eldar Codex was... extremely disappointing.
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Sun Apr 19 2015, 19:05

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
@Panic_Puppet wrote:
Alternatively, they'll do exactly what they did last time - realise "oh crap", and scale every other book back in order to not run around with everything being OP.

Aye... Khorne Daemonkin in between a strong Necron Codex and an absurdly strong Eldar Codex was... extremely disappointing.

Lol yeah and before that blood angels, orks and dark eldar Very Happy

It feels like the eldar codex has been written by an eleven year old kid who thought 'I plaw eldar, so I sthall make them AWESOME AND CRUSH ALL BEFORE ME! Take that opponents! I shall crush your souls and ruin the game for you......fun...FUN!....what's that? Mwahahahaha'

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Panic_Puppet
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Sun Apr 19 2015, 19:57

It's almost like 7th edition Daemons in Fantasy, which practically killed the game - they were almost certainly deliberately overpowered. I genuinely worry we could see a game-killer of a codex here.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Sun Apr 19 2015, 20:01

Given the huge success of our combined effords to get a FAQ for our codex, we should write them mails that we would pay another € 5o for a codex of equal powerlevel Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Mon Apr 20 2015, 10:49

Would any of us actually want a codex of equal power level? i certainly wouldnt.

I know this will come across as a knee jerk 'sky is falling' internet whine, but im writing them an email to voice my displeasure at the ridiculousness of this new book compared to whats gone before and their inability (or lack of desire) to stay the course with any of their 'design philosophies' for more than a few books.

I'm not going to be making any more purchases until they demonstrate some sort of ability or willingness to actually make this game anything more than pew pew noises and action figures with a few dice rolls thrown in.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Mon Apr 20 2015, 10:56

Quote :
Would any of us actually want a codex of equal power level?

Actually? Yes!
ALL the codices should be on that level.
Why? Because the Eldar book has a good INTERNAL balance, as no unit is "garbage" and every unit is useful in a way. You can really play what you like to play and don't have to feel punished just because you happen to like Banshees.
They lack EXTERNAL balance. So if you bring all the books on the same level it could get really entertaining.
I also think that Necrons do not have a bad standing against the new Eldar. It's the usual suspects (DE, CSM, DA) which do not even need to try to play against that.
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Mon Apr 20 2015, 11:40

The point however should be to bring the overall power level down.

The game mechanics have certain limits, such as rolling 1's always fail. So if weapons that are capable of ignoring 2+ armour become commonplace then yes everyone will have access to them but then no one will have that much fun removing units off the table.

I totally agree with what you say about internal balance and all units having their day and codices being equal but I don't think that can be sustained at the power level this new eldar codex appears to be.

Less powerful weaponry IMHO makes for a far more interesting game.

Just my pennies worth though Smile no disrespect to anyone, least all of you Charondyr

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar coming   Mon Apr 20 2015, 12:16

@Dragontree wrote:
The point however should be to bring the overall power level down.

The game mechanics have certain limits, such as rolling 1's always fail. So if weapons that are capable of ignoring 2+ armour become commonplace then yes everyone will have access to them but then no one will have that much fun removing units off the table.

I totally agree with what you say about internal balance and all units having their day and codices being equal but I don't think that can be sustained at the power level this new eldar codex appears to be.

Less powerful weaponry IMHO makes for a far more interesting game.

Just my pennies worth though Smile no disrespect to anyone, least all of you Charondyr

I agree and some powers are to strong too, like Invis and Endurance? (FnP 4+) if you combined one of those with the right unit.. its an unstoppable unit..

Its no Fun removal entire units off the game for either side.. its also no fun Not being able to remove a single model. (Teleporting Invis Centurions comes to mind).

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