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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Splintermind Episode 10   Sat Apr 04 2015, 15:43

Episode 10 "Highlander: There can be only one....Venom?"

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We are joined by Justin Keefer from The Independent Characters podcast as we discuss playing Dark Eldar using the Highlander format. Units that normally do not see the table and the "Wyche Tax" are discussed, Thor restates his loathing for Mandrakes, and a bonus Highlander battle report of Brian's newly painted Eldar versus Justin's Dark Eldar is featured.

Hint: the pointy-eared army wins!

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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 10   Sun Apr 05 2015, 00:31

Great episode. I really enjoyed the battle report'ish thing at the end.
I really wish it could have come out a day or two sooner, though, as I just yesterday finished a two-day highlander tournament, and I could have used the pointers Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 10   Sun Apr 05 2015, 01:27

@Sigmaril wrote:
Great episode. I really enjoyed the battle report'ish thing at the end.
I really wish it could have come out a day or two sooner, though, as I just yesterday finished a two-day highlander tournament, and I could have used the pointers Smile

What was your list? What kind of lists did you run in to? bounce

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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 10   Sun Apr 05 2015, 03:15

@Evil Space Elves wrote:
@Sigmaril wrote:
Great episode. I really enjoyed the battle report'ish thing at the end.
I really wish it could have come out a day or two sooner, though, as I just yesterday finished a two-day highlander tournament, and I could have used the pointers Smile

What was your list? What kind of lists did you run in to? bounce
The highlander variant allowed triblets in troops, and one double outside of troops. Everyone had to use one CAD, and no fortifications. My list was:

Quote :
Succubus w. Haywire Grenades, Archite Glaive
Archon w. Blaster, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Armour of Misery, Webway Portal
5 Kabalite Warriors w. Blaster, in Venom w. Splinter Cannon
5 Kabalite Warriors w. Blaster, in Venom w. Splinter Cannon
5 Kabalite Warriors w. Blaster, in Venom w. Splinter Cannon
5 Kabalite Trueborn w. 4 blasters, in Raider w. Dark lance, Torment Grenade Launcher, Night shields
4 Grotesques w. Aberration upgrade, Scissorhand, in Raider w. Dark lance, Night shields
9 Reavers w. Arena Champion upgrade, 3 cluster caltrops
5 Scourges w. 4 Haywire blasters
Razorwing Jetfighter w. Dark lances
Ravager w. 3 dark lances
Ravager w. 3 dark lances

My reasoning for bringing the phantasm/torment thingies was that I expected a lot of Xenos, especially Tau and Daemons, and they would both hurt from these. There were indeed a lot of these, but I encountered none of them, and they only performed in one game. Oh well.

My opponents:
1: Space Wolves rush list. 2 maxed out tunderwolf units, with sprinkled drop pods. Normally I wouldnt fear these, but with just three venoms I barely made a dent in them. I was all but tabled turn 3.
2: Tyranids. 4 FMCs, two drop pods. All in all 5-6 MCs with flamers or haywire flamers. I did well on the mission, though. Turn 5 I would have won slightly. He contested for a slight loss in turn 6, and turn 7 I again would have won. It ended turn 6, obviously.
3: Necrons. One of those games where nothing failed for me, and everything did for my opponent. He had a fairly bad list with C'tan focus. Easy win.
4: Nurgle CSM rush list. Bike-Lord, spawn, Bikers, 2x maulerfiends, 3x oblits and a heldrake. He severly underestimated what charging grotesques can do to bikes when they get to charge. He seized initiative and moved almost his entire army to within an inch of mine, looking very smug. Turn 2 he had 2 spawn and his lord left. Quite funny.
5: Best eldar player in the country. Captain of our ETC team. He got first turn and couldn't have gotten better psychic powers if he'd just hand-picked them. I deployed with most things in reserves, and I managed to hold on till turn 5, which would have ended 16-4 to him. I got tabled turn 6, though. It was a great game, but major defeat was never in doubt.
6: Orks! Friggin loads upon loads of Orks. Heavy on bikes and explosives. He managed to one-shot both ravagers turn 1 (no LOS-blockers to speak of), but I got back in the game with out-manouvering him. It being the 6th game in two days took it's toll, though, and we both made lots of stupid mistakes. I got a lot of good use from the Phantasm/Torment launchers. It was great fun on Kannons Smile Ended in a slight victory for him.

Edit: Overall, there were 5 Tau players out of 24 people. Top 3 were Tau, Daemon, and Eldar. I ended 13th, so somewhat dissappointing, but it was great fun.
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 10   Sun Apr 05 2015, 07:37

Interesting format with allowing the triple troop and another double of a different unit choice. More of a Highlander-light really, though there is no "official Highlander" format as we mentioned in the show.

I really wish that I could have been a there to kick back and drink a beer while you handed that CSM player such a beat down Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Grotesques FTW!!

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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 10   Sun Apr 05 2015, 09:54

I doubt I would have attended if it was "true" highlander. Just one venom, and having to buy wyches, compared to eldar and tau hardly noticing any tax at all. Not like those are a walkover as it is :-) Sisters of Battle came in 7th, which was somewhat of a surprise, and the tyranids ended smack in the bottom. There was one other DE present. He went with 3 flyers. He did approximately as well as me, but in retrospect I feel his list was better than mine. Or at least his pick of double.
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 10   Sun Apr 05 2015, 11:18

If you need topics, conversions are always nice to listen about. What kind of minis would make for great alternatives, etc.
I don't remember if there was something like that discussed in an earlier episode?



Also, you made me want ice cream Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 10   Sun Apr 05 2015, 15:08

Great cast guys, but personally I absolutely loath the highlander format.

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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 10   Sun Apr 05 2015, 16:43

@Mushkilla wrote:
Great cast guys, but personally I absolutely loath the highlander format.
How come?

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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 10   Sun Apr 05 2015, 16:56

@Thor665 wrote:
@Mushkilla wrote:
Great cast guys, but personally I absolutely loath the highlander format.
How come?

Because the top tier armies are still horrendously strong in highlander, and a lot of highlander events don't allow non CAD detachments, so I can't run my coven army.

I don't mind fighting WAAC armies if I can at least field the army I enjoy playing. Highlander doesn't get rid of the WAAC armies, so in highlander I'm still fighting WAAC lists just now I can't even field the Dark Eldar list I want to field. What's the point?

Also I don't believe in having to go out and buy a bunch units just to be able to participate in an event. Honestly highlander format sounds like something the GW sales team has cooked up to sell more models. Sure if you have an extensive collection then it might be good for breathing new life into your 40k hobby. But I keep hearing people pushing highlander as a more balanced event, when it's not.

But that's just my personal opinion.

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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 10   Sun Apr 05 2015, 17:56

Great listen, as always guys. I was happy you pointed out that Highlander penalizes Dark Eldar more than it does say, Eldar, or Tau. Outside of Banshees, I don't think it's possible to pick a bad Eldar unit, so they shrug off Highlander pretty easy. I like the idea behind Highlander but ultimately it doesn't really shake up the existing hierarchy of which armies are strong and which are, uh, not as strong. I feel it's a case of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

As for ideas for the next show, I don't recall, but did you already devote a show to the new Necrons and how DE match up/counter them? If not, I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this.
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 10   Sun Apr 05 2015, 18:10

@sweetbacon wrote:


As for ideas for the next show, I don't recall, but did you already devote a show to the new Necrons and how DE match up/counter them?   If not, I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this.  

This is something that I would be up for. There is a very good Necron player in my gaming group that is very good at using combos of units/wargear for maximum awesome.

As to your thoughts on DE getting punished in Highlander- Totally agree. Highlander really only works in a friendly format. Ultra-competitive players will still be able to exploit Deathstars, and stronger armies such as CWE will certainly be able get by because of the wealth of strong units. I like the format because (as Mush mentioned) it favors people with large collections while giving them an opportunity to dust off less-used units, and it forces you to use a different hammer to crack the same nut. While I agree that it can seem like a money grab by GW (who in no way supports the Highlander format), it is a good way for beginners to try out new units. This works only with lower point games.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 10   Sun Apr 05 2015, 18:30

@Evil Space Elves wrote:
While I agree that it can seem like a money grab by GW (who in no way supports the Highlander format)

Thankfully GW are not that cunning, yet... Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 10   Sun Apr 05 2015, 23:37

@Evil Space Elves wrote:
@sweetbacon wrote:


As for ideas for the next show, I don't recall, but did you already devote a show to the new Necrons and how DE match up/counter them?   If not, I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this.  

This is something that I would be up for. There is a very good Necron player in my gaming group that is very good at using combos of units/wargear for maximum awesome.
This is a path I'd be very interested to follow as well. Not just for Necrons, but especially for how to deal with the top-tier armies out there: Tau, Eldar, Flyrants, Daemons....
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 10   Mon Apr 06 2015, 03:27

Awesome thoughts on Highlander guys,

Personally I really enjoy the fluff, so a thought for the next episode could be how do the characters and units back story match up to how they preform in game.

Looking forward to the next episode,
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 10   Tue Apr 07 2015, 12:48

While I get the appeal of the format, that being: its an easy way to establish rules for an "auto-friendly" game I gotta agree with Mush. I really don't like the format. While I don't loathe the Highlander format, there is just something about it that bugs me. I think I just get sick of hearing about people complaining about "this army is cheesy, that army is cheesy, this unit is cheesy" blah blah blah. So much of it seems targeted at Eldar players too. Too many Wave Serpents, too many Venoms, you brought a Wraithknight OMGZ. I think I'm just sick and tired of hearing it. Especially when there are such powerful game shattering combos like auto-invisible Red Scorpion centurions with Draigo teleportation that never get a sniff of controversy and are still totally playable in the highlander format. Even saying that, I have no problem with people rocking super units... just let me do it too!

To me I think narrative play, like the three game mini-campaigns that the Overlords advocate are a far more fulfilling way to embrace friendly play. Also while I personally don't like the format by no means am I discouraging people from playing the Highlander format if it makes a positive impact on your local scene. Its just something I personally don't want to play even though I rarely take more than 2 wave serpents or 2 venoms in my lists (or more than 2 duplicates in any list for that matter).

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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 10   Wed Apr 08 2015, 00:33

@Mushkilla wrote:

Because the top tier armies are still horrendously strong in highlander, and a lot of highlander events don't allow non CAD detachments, so I can't run my coven army.
That's interesting and disappointing. If I understand Highlander (only having heard about it here on episode 10), you can't take multiple of the same unit, and without formations or RSR detatchment, it would really limit your choices!
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 10   Wed Apr 08 2015, 08:54

@nexs wrote:
That's interesting and disappointing. If I understand Highlander (only having heard about it here on episode 10), you can't take multiple of the same unit, and without formations or RSR detatchment, it would really limit your choices!

For example you can take wave serpents in multiple slots or with different troop choices in a lot of highlander formats and in the format where you can't then we can only take 1 venom and 1 raider. So it's lose/lose.

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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 10   Wed Apr 08 2015, 14:20

@Mngwa wrote:


Also, you made me want ice cream Razz

You just can't plan around the audio interruption from a random ice cream truck rolling down the road......unless you close the garage door! Shocked

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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 10   Wed Apr 08 2015, 19:43

I have played one Highlander tournament so far, and I have to say that I was a bit surprised at how many strong, if not quite actual cheese, lists were present. It was one of everything, but you could dupe troops and transports if you had used up all available troop options with a single choice.

I handled myself fine against all my opponents except for an Iyanden list, all Wraith-this and Wraith-that - a 'Seer, a 'Lord, a 'Knight, some 'Blades and some 'Guards. Plus a Serpent and Farseer, maybe something else. Combined with some astoundingly bad dice rolling, I think I killed one Wraithguard and one Wraithblade and only managed to keep my Talos and Cronos on the table.

Overall, I didn't find the games any better than regular ones, nor did I really see any units that I normally wouldn't in the local meta.
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 10   Mon Apr 13 2015, 08:20

Brilliant Episode as always chaps, so thanks again. Though I don't know if it was just me but I had a bit of weird audio disparity during it. For the first half or so Thor you were very quiet but Evil Space Elves you came across loud and clear, then at some arbitrary mid point it switched and you became almost completely impossible to hear Evil Space Elves, when you returned after the battle however you were absolutely fine. Did anyone else have the same problem or am I a lone incident?
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PostSubject: Re: Splintermind Episode 10   Mon Apr 13 2015, 09:17

There were a few times when I turned the volume way up to hear something and was then nearly deafened by the sound returning to normal. I figured they were just sharing the pain.

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