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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Thu Apr 16 2015, 11:04

Eldar Jetbikes are simply broken. GD sometimes makes so silly mistakes..
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Thu Apr 16 2015, 11:19

@Cerve wrote:
Eldar Jetbikes are simply broken. GD sometimes makes so silly mistakes..

I'm going to guess that there's only one of each heavy weapon per box of models. So anyone wanting to field 10 scatter laser in a unit is going to have to buy 10 boxes of Windriders. Even if they do 50/50 with Shuriken Cannon, that's still 5 boxes. So from a sales perspective, it's a winner from GW as long as people are desparate enough to do it. And we all know some people are!

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Thu Apr 16 2015, 11:51

i personnally have several Shu cannons and Scatter lazors from Serpent/Falcon/Wraithlord/War Walker/Vyper kits even from guardians its not that much of a problem to get that bit, its a problem to field them.
Cerve: Use that thick monkieg skull of yours Razz 27 ppm per jetbike so its minimum 81 points the average Imperial player has several lascannons ap3 shots, plasmas and stuff, if you just look at these jets with those they gonna jink... which means they lose their punch and be kind of useless for that high price. Yea sure they assault Gaunts from 36" but even IG gets to throw saves, if Shu cannon than its already 24" so they are unsafe there and has to assault move away(you can box them in easily) or just shoot a craptonn of bolters or equivalents at them and laugh as they fail their saves Razz

I have 14 jets but its not worth do go devastator jets with them simply cus too expensive and ineffective VS half 40k running around with 3+ or 2+, only point is many shots good vs Necrons Nids and IG rest can be dealt with in cheaper ways like Disintegrator ravagers Razz
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Thu Apr 16 2015, 12:48

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Cerve wrote:
Eldar Jetbikes are simply broken. GD sometimes makes so silly mistakes..

I'm going to guess that there's only one of each heavy weapon per box of models. So anyone wanting to field 10 scatter laser in a unit is going to have to buy 10 boxes of Windriders. Even if they do 50/50 with Shuriken Cannon, that's still 5 boxes. So from a sales perspective, it's a winner from GW as long as people are desparate enough to do it. And we all know some people are!

Looks like I was wrong! According to the latest screenshot from WD, the Windrider kit contains enough of each weapon to equip all three bikes the same.

I think this calls for:


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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Thu Apr 16 2015, 13:32

I can confirm the scatter laser thing... 3 per box...

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Thu Apr 16 2015, 14:38

@urden93 wrote:
i personnally have several Shu cannons and Scatter lazors from Serpent/Falcon/Wraithlord/War Walker/Vyper kits even from guardians its not that much of a problem to get that bit, its a problem to field them.
Cerve: Use that thick monkieg skull of yours Razz 27 ppm per jetbike so its minimum 81 points the average Imperial player has several lascannons ap3 shots, plasmas and stuff, if you just look at these jets with those they gonna jink... which means they lose their punch and be kind of useless for that high price. Yea sure they assault Gaunts from 36" but even IG gets to throw saves, if Shu cannon than its already 24" so they are unsafe there and has to assault move away(you can box them in easily) or just shoot a craptonn of bolters or equivalents at them and laugh as they fail their saves Razz

I have 14 jets but its not worth do go devastator jets with them simply cus too expensive and ineffective VS half 40k running around with 3+ or 2+, only point is many shots good vs Necrons Nids and IG rest can be dealt with in cheaper ways like Disintegrator ravagers Razz

Look, 56 Bikes, 1350 Points.
224 hit per TURN.
1000+ (A THOUSAND) per 5 turns. Do your math.

12", shoot, 2D6" back.
Jink.
Objective secure.
move up 48".
Even if u play spam AV13 I sitll win at objectives. 3 Storm Ravens on the sky will be destroyed in 3 turns.

It makes NO sense. Seriously, 27 point, a troop unit...please. This can really broke the entire game.
Repeat, try with math. Count how much Av12, T5+, T4-, 2+\3++ you make in one-single-turn.

I just say that they can destroy an entire Corpsethief formation in ONE turn. 12"+36" range.

Wtf?! No way. There's just one list wich can resist: twin linked 2++ Daemons.



Add a little bit of skill at the Eldar Player (keep in reserves against good shoot/flyers, keep just 1000 points of bikes and the other in D guns, play at objectives) and there's no way to win against.
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Thu Apr 16 2015, 14:45

I would not say there's no way to win. If everyone and their mother start to run mostly jetbike armies, I'll dust off my trusty land raiders and play a DA tricrisader list, park them on the objectives and proceed to clean the bikes from the table.

That being said, I agree that a 270 pts units that can fire 40 S6 shots and jump back behind LOS is overpowered. I'm way more worried about that than all the D weapons.
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Thu Apr 16 2015, 14:57

@Cerve wrote:
@urden93 wrote:
i personnally have several Shu cannons and Scatter lazors from Serpent/Falcon/Wraithlord/War Walker/Vyper kits even from guardians its not that much of a problem to get that bit, its a problem to field them.
Cerve: Use that thick monkieg skull of yours Razz 27 ppm per jetbike so its minimum 81 points the average Imperial player has several lascannons ap3 shots, plasmas and stuff, if you just look at these jets with those they gonna jink... which means they lose their punch and be kind of useless for that high price. Yea sure they assault Gaunts from 36" but even IG gets to throw saves, if Shu cannon than its already 24" so they are unsafe there and has to assault move away(you can box them in easily) or just shoot a craptonn of bolters or equivalents at them and laugh as they fail their saves Razz

I have 14 jets but its not worth do go devastator jets with them simply cus too expensive and ineffective VS half 40k running around with 3+ or 2+, only point is many shots good vs Necrons Nids and IG rest can be dealt with in cheaper ways like Disintegrator ravagers Razz

Look, 56 Bikes, 1350 Points.
224 hit per TURN.
1000+ (A THOUSAND) per 5 turns. Do your math.

12", shoot, 2D6" back.
Jink.
Objective secure.
move up 48".
Even if u play spam AV13 I sitll win at objectives. 3 Storm Ravens on the sky will be destroyed in 3 turns.

It makes NO sense. Seriously, 27 point, a troop unit...please. This can really broke the entire game.
Repeat, try with math. Count how much Av12, T5+, T4-, 2+\3++ you make in one-single-turn.

I just say that they can destroy an entire Corpsethief formation in ONE turn. 12"+36" range.

Wtf?! No way. There's just one list wich can resist: twin linked 2++ Daemons.



Add a little bit of skill at the Eldar Player (keep in reserves against good shoot/flyers, keep just 1000 points of bikes and the other in D guns, play at objectives) and there's no way to win against.

Well your maths is off for starters.
56 bikes at 27pts per model is 1512 not 1350.

56 bikes at BS4 will result in 149 hits per turn, not 224. Which even wounding on 2's is 124 wounds per turn.

As for there being no way to win - it's easy. Don't play them. If someone I was supposed to be playing even attempted that kind of filth I'd just walk away, it's not fun, it's clearly not in the social contract that two players engage in when you agree to play the game, and you also deny them the satisfaction of displaying a complete and total lack of any skill or judgement in winning the game - I guarantee they'll go away feeling a damn sight more frustrated than you do. That's a win in my book!

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Thu Apr 16 2015, 15:36

You're right, are 50 bikes, not 57, my bad.

But I have count Scatter Lasers, not Shuriken. Way better in this scenario (50×4=200 shots per turn).

Anyway, I agree with your tought, is not the list: is the choice. Even 9 Bikes are 36 shots at S6 36", on a Eldar Jetbike.
For 27 points, to me is broken. Any player can play what he want sure, but is so bad go in a tournament and simply concede against that list. A completely waste of money and time.

I don't know, maybe we will think about a limit. It will be the first here (Italy). That's a sad thing Sad
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Thu Apr 16 2015, 15:56

It does make me interested to see what they're going to do with Tau now as I've decided to start them once their new codex drops - wonder if they'll get some kind of D-weapon or affordable super heavy.

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Thu Apr 16 2015, 20:05

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
It does make me interested to see what they're going to do with Tau now as I've decided to start them once their new codex drops - wonder if they'll get some kind of D-weapon or affordable super heavy.

when I look at windrider leaks it can only be expected that for Tau D-weapons can be the stock weapon on every fire warrior.

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Fri Apr 17 2015, 15:47

Think about 30 jetbikes for a minute. Spending 810 points on something to put 4.5 wounds on a riptide or 2.2222 on a flyrant (assuming both have FNP) or 4.5 wounds on a wraith lord (assuming they remain at T8, 3+) isn't a terrific expenditure of points. They're good, under costed even, and they're going to get played, but they're not the one stop shop of answers people are acting like they are and armies that are nothing but jetbikes will have too many hard counters to ever really get going (besides the monetary cost, which shouldn't be a balancing factor, but kind of is anyway).

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Fri Apr 17 2015, 16:11

It's the rumors of D-weapons that pull it together. Have the bikes hit infantry/light to medium units, and the D-weapons hit the hard targets...riptides and wraith knights, for example.
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Fri Apr 17 2015, 16:23

@ShadowcatX wrote:
Think about 30 jetbikes for a minute. Spending 810 points on something to put 4.5 wounds on a riptide or 2.2222 on a flyrant (assuming both have FNP) or 4.5 wounds on a wraith lord (assuming they remain at T8, 3+) isn't a terrific expenditure of points.

Think about the wider meta though. With that much S6 on the table, AV10 is just going to disappear - either by being annihilated turn one or simply by not being taken in the first place. Remind me what AV most of our vehicles are? Venoms just died. They are an ex-vehicle. Even jinking, a unit of just 3 jetbikes with scatter lasers takes a Venom out in one shooting phase. AV11 doesn't fare much better. Anything with an armour save is in trouble due to either sheer number of shots or rending (in the case of the shuriken cannon). If Guide and/or Prescience is still available then a decent number of jetbikes can deal with almost any flyer/FMC too.

And the worst thing is that they jetbikes are still relatively cheap, extremely fast, fairly resilient and TROOPS!!

I get that GW wants to sell the new kits but dear god! Eldar players have been screaming for new jetbikes for decades now. They would have bought them anyway!!! Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Fri Apr 17 2015, 17:23

Yeah the new jetbike got me much more worried than the D weapon stuff. The fact that they can wreck all our vehicles turn 1 is huge... and we can't even rely on Coven units because they will force too many saves on our poor talos... Now if you had D weapon to the mix... Even if they nerf wave serpent into the ground, it will not matter, the codex will be seriously overpowered. We can hope they cost the Wraith stuff properly but they already failed to do that for the jetbikes so why would it be different?
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Fri Apr 17 2015, 18:52

A guy on warseer says he has a spanish dex sounds intresting whats he saying:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?407490-Eldar-imminent/page69

banshee changes are nice wraithblades too but WK and distort is not to my liking i wount be able to field my new 10 gunwraiths T.T
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Fri Apr 17 2015, 20:15


The codex strip-tease has begun on Warseer, Iuchiban claims to have a Spanish edition in-hand and is answering questions:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?407490-Eldar-imminent/page69


And, the pre-orders are now up on GW:

Codex: Craftworlds USD$58-Cdn$70-AUD$90-UK£35-EU46€

Eldar Windriders (plastic) USD$41-Cdn$49-AUD$70-UK£25-EU33€
Eldar Farseer/Warlock Skyrunner (plastic) USD$33-Cdn$40-AUD$56-UK£20-EU26€
Eldar Autarch (plastic) USD$26-Cdn$31-AUD$28.50-UK£16-EU21€
Eldar Autarch Skyrunner (plastic & resin) USD$33-Cdn$40-AUD$56-UK£20-EU26€
Eldar Shining Spears (plastic & resin) USD$50-Cdn$60-AUD$84-UK£30-EU39€

Codex: Craftworlds (Farseer Edition) USD$165-Cdn$200-AUD$180-UK£100-EU130€
Codex: Craftworlds (Interactive Edition) USD$54.99-Cdn$59.50-AUD$69.99-UK£34.99-EU44.99€
Codex: Craftworlds (eBook) USD$34.99-Cdn$37.99-AUD$44.99-UK£21.99-EU28.99€

Warhammer 40,000 Datacards: Craftworlds USD$12.50-Cdn$15-AUD$16-UK£7.50-EU10€

Guardian Battlehost Web Bundle USD$343.75-Cdn$410.50-AUD$552-UK£213-EU285€
Wraith Host Web Bundle USD$330.50-Cdn$397.25-AUD$392-UK£199-EU261.50€
Windrider Host Web Bundle USD$264-Cdn$317-AUD$452-UK£162.50-EU216€
Eldar New Releases Web Bundle USD$158-Cdn$190-AUD$244.50-UK£96-EU126€
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Fri Apr 17 2015, 20:35

some pretty neat stuff,
relics basically the same, mantle gone instead some S4 ap3 rend pistol
Uldanorethi seems ap2
Formations are kind of broken op as all decurion stuff
Guardian battlehost: Vypers, Warwalkers and Vaul's support batteries get preferred enemy if they have a unit of Guardias at 12". Guardians can purchase a Platform for free.

Windrider host: Once per game all formation gets Shred when firing shuriken weapons

Guardian Stormhost: Vypers, Warwalkers and Vaul's support batteries get preferred enemy if they have a unit of Guardias at 12". Storm guardians can purchase 2 special weapons for free.

Seer council: They harness Warp charges with 3+.

Aspect Host: They re-roll LD tests and get +1 to WS or BS.

Dire Avenger Shrine: Once per game, Shuriken weapons are Assault 3. +1 to BS

Crimson Death: Preferred enemy (Flying things), 4+ cover save, and if Jink, may re-roll the cover save.

Wraithhost: Get battle trance, if targe is at 18" or less from spiritser, reroll to hit



im sure i gonna try non windrider guardians cus free upgrades are nice :3 and aspect shrine seems decent too, tho wraiths seems so broken that i fear to bring them against non necron or non marine guys
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Fri Apr 17 2015, 21:15

http://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/32y9ri/eldar_leaks/

Someone got the dex already he's answering questions!

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Sat Apr 18 2015, 08:10

I don't like what I hear. I was planning to buy some Monk cousins as allies, but I would feel dirty now playing with them. It is like a marathon and I use a car. Too bad. It's not the D weapons that worry me, but the wind riders and the point costs of the wraith Knight. I can deal with one, maybe two. But with three or four? Too bad, I really wanted to mix both to create my own corsair army.
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Sat Apr 18 2015, 14:19

This is a little embarrassing to admit but I drank a little too much last night and drunk called gw. I left a message asking them where is the love for the dark kin and why would they print this codex. I told them they broke 7th edition. Now that I said my mind to gw, I'm going to start thinking of a solution and not the problem. At least NS will be more useful to take, hopefully. (Of course the bikes will blow us out of the water even with NS. But at least I get to through my cover saves at their shots. Who doesn't like throwing dice) Sorry if this was already mentioned above but I believe WS shields have shorter range. Also if we decide to be jerks we can always ally with gw's love child. Plus I believe our codex has one of best chances against our boring cousins but that is not saying much


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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Sat Apr 18 2015, 14:49

wait with calling lovechild Razz i guess we can see new SM codex soon cus why the heck not and last time they trumped eldar, they will this time too i guess so sit and wait like a good archon Razz,
as for CWE, we still have better specialised shooting in every range except on SD, so simply shoot them to death before they do -> nulldeploy with Scalpel squadron and hope to get lucky Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Sat Apr 18 2015, 14:51

Ur right urden sm are going to be bad
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Sat Apr 18 2015, 14:57

Quote :
as for CWE, we still have better specialised shooting in every range except on SD,

And where might that be?
Firedrakes are CHEAPER and plain BETTER than Blasterborn (in the aspect formation even with BS5)
We might have more poison but this does not stand up against their insane amount of S6 shooting (also they actually wound marines and guard on 2+ and not on 4+)
So where is our better specialised shooting? The only thing we have a lot more of are lances and that is only because Eldar do not care about lances. If they would, they could bring an equal amount on more stable platforms.
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Sat Apr 18 2015, 15:06

sorry i dindt wanted to say DE are better overall but Dissintegrators, Haywire blasters, Heatlances gives DE edge in specialised shots tho most are only on same few units. Yeah i didnt count formations my bad :/, against CWE its gonna be still brutal but now we have our covers for a while unlike before, in CC i see no chance unfortunately( khm GW where is Wych cult supplement with decurion or smthn similar) Firedragons are sure 22 points but scourges are better with heatlances for 26 points( decurion makes them less decent with fix/run on eldar tho).
Conclusion: all armies need the decurion buffing cus its realy off the power meter, aspects got waaaay better which should be done to at least wyches and Incubi too
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