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 New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4

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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Tue Apr 28 2015, 00:10

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
Quote :
And for some reason, it is recommended as an anti-vehicle weapon? AP 6 Heavy 4 sounds more like something to be used against GEQs.

12" more range than the Canon, 1 shot more. Bladestorm is only on wound rolls, not on AP rolls.
So yes, it is the better anti-vehicle weapon.

I mean compared to actual designated anti-tank weapons, which Windriders (thankfully) don't have access to.

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
Given the fact that every jetbike now can use one, a 6 men unit spams 24 S6 shots. That is enough to make even an AV12 vehicle worry.

That's true...

Speaking of scatterspam though: From what I can tell, there is only one Scatter Laser in the new box. That could be a limiting factor, or at least have been intended as one. "If you want 3 bikes with Scatter Lasers, you'll have to buy 9 in total!"
Or take them from vehicles, but GW doesn't plan for conversions anymore.
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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Tue Apr 28 2015, 00:24

@Rokuro wrote:


Speaking of scatterspam though: From what I can tell, there is only one Scatter Laser in the new box. That could be a limiting factor, or at least have been intended as one. "If you want 3 bikes with Scatter Lasers, you'll have to buy 9 in total!"
Or take them from vehicles, but GW doesn't plan for conversions anymore.

According to GW's site, the kit contains 3 shuriken cannons and 3 scatterlasers.

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Tue Apr 28 2015, 00:36

@Calyptra wrote:
According to GW's site, the kit contains 3 shuriken cannons and 3 scatterlasers.

Then all hope is lost.
For once GW's greed would have been welcome to get in the way. Mad
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@miral
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Tue Apr 28 2015, 07:41

Did you just tell me that scatter laser have 48" range? plus movement of 12" ... so you either have first turn or you just can't hide anywhere ...
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Tue Apr 28 2015, 08:23

Scatter is 12" move + R 36" and very much antitank weapon these days when its hard to destroy vehiche other that grinding its hullpoints to zero.

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Thu Apr 30 2015, 21:36

Having read through the new eldar codex, these are my two main issues:
1) The wraithknight is about 75-100 pts too cheap.
2) Allowing every jetbike to take a special weapon is pretty ridiculous. It should be a 1 per 3 bikes option at the most.


They were a lot less stingy with handing out AP2 melee weapons than they have been in previous recent codices. This isn't much of a problem for DE, but it just adds to the feeling that the DE codex was a rushjob.

All in all, it's a pretty nice codex - it just makes any codex made before Necrons look that much worse by comparison, though. However, I noticed that they're releasing a new Imperial Knights codex soon, and that one is only what 1-2 years old? Maybe this means that the rushjob codices will be updated to the new format soon (which would explain why they're still holding onto a Vect model). Of course, it really sucks for the wallet.
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Fri May 01 2015, 10:42

Honestly, my biggest problem with it is that is allows an Eldar player to theoretically take 8 Warithknights in a single army (if playing enough points).
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Fri May 01 2015, 11:02

@Squidmaster wrote:
Honestly, my biggest problem with it is that is allows an Eldar player to theoretically take 8 Warithknights in a single army (if playing enough points).

12 actually. You can take 1-12 auxiliary choices per core choice and the Wraith Constructs auxiliary choice allows one Wraithknight.

Of course, that's over 3500 points just on the Wraithknights!

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Fri May 01 2015, 11:31

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Squidmaster wrote:
Honestly, my biggest problem with it is that is allows an Eldar player to theoretically take 8 Warithknights in a single army (if playing enough points).

12 actually. You can take 1-12 auxiliary choices per core choice and the Wraith Constructs auxiliary choice allows one Wraithknight.

Of course, that's over 3500 points just on the Wraithknights!

per core choice. so if you take two core choices you could have 24 wraithknights...

I realise I'm getting silly here, but I am due to play some 3000pt games this summer. Not looking forward to that matchup if the Eldar guy at club takes part!

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Fri May 01 2015, 11:36

Hearing all that stuff I think that the best way to counter Eldar is taking fortifications and a infantry heavy list. Many bodies and weapons. If we can't rely on jink save, why using it at all? Factor in Web way portal first strike units and you'd be good to go. Any good fortifications for that style?
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Fri May 01 2015, 11:42

@CptMetal wrote:
Hearing all that stuff I think that the best way to counter Eldar is taking fortifications and a infantry heavy list. Many bodies and weapons. If we can't rely on jink save, why using it at all? Factor in Web way portal first strike units and you'd be good to go. Any good fortifications for that style?

A wraithknight will take out your fortification in a single turn.

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Fri May 01 2015, 12:44

DE will struggle to quickly and efficiently deal with one Wraighknight, but with enough Dark Lances (and luck), it can be done. Or, maybe, just maybe, one WK can be ignored to focus on the rest of the army.

If , god forbid, an opponent brings more than one, then I don't see what DE can do, since two (or more) Jump GMC with either ranged or CC D weapons and Stomp can cripple a lot of DE armies by themselves, without even talking about what Scatter Bikes and D-Scythe WG will do to us.
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Fri May 01 2015, 14:24

Yeah, I don't see an easy way to take one down in a single turn.

If I've mathed this right, it'll take 27 lance shots to kill a Wraithknight. (27 shots = 18 hits = 9 wounds, 3 of which are saved by Feel No Pain)

17 ossefactor shots should kill a Wraithknight. (17 shots = 11 hits = 9 wounds, 3 FnP saves)

A Talos with an inchor injector will strip a couple wounds off it. The trouble is that the Wraithknight is Initiative 5, so the best options would be either a Dark Artisan, so you're striking simultaneously, or a Corpsethief, assuming the Wraithknight can't kill them all before they strike, which I'm too lazy to figure out right now.

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Fri May 01 2015, 14:52

@Calyptra wrote:

A Talos with an inchor injector will strip a couple wounds off it. The trouble is that the Wraithknight is Initiative 5, so the best options would be either a Dark Artisan, so you're striking simultaneously, or a Corpsethief, assuming the Wraithknight can't kill them all before they strike, which I'm too lazy to figure out right now.

It's not much of a problem if the Wraithknight isn't kitted out for close-combat. Granted, I'm not sure why anyone would take the suncannon over the glaive+shield.

A corpsethief, most likely, will not be wiped out before they can dish out their attacks.. but that's a 600 pt unit being devoted to take out a 300 pt unit, that is likely to take heavy casualties in order to do so.. and that's if you can catch up to the Wraithknight to engage it. By my quick and messy calculations, I reckon that you need to have at least 4 Talos standing in order to have a decent shot at killing the Wraithknight in 1 turn, but it's still going to be rough, with the WK's 4+ invul, and it will get FNP against any wounds that you didn't roll a 6 on.
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Fri May 01 2015, 15:09

That'll teach me to not bother looking up what all its stuff does. I didn't know about the invulnerable save, and didn't take that into account during my mathing.

Ok, the scattershield confers a 5++ save. Is there something that improves it to 4++?

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Fri May 01 2015, 15:43

Ah. I must have misremembered or gotten it confused with another thing that conveys 4++ in the codex.

So.. it's not as bad as I thought, I guess?
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Fri May 01 2015, 15:47

IF the Wraithknight isn't kitted for close combat and IF the Corpsethief Claw can manage to get into combat with it then they should do the trick. Sure, the Wraithknight goes first but he can't overwatch and only has 4 attacks, needing 4+ to hit, 2+ to wound and with FNP applying (4+ if you can manage to get a Cronos nearby). So that's only just over 1 wound per turn on the Taloi. In return, on the charge, each Talos with Ichor Injectors should do just over 2 wounds. The Knight should therefore be dead before it gets to Stomp.

Unfortunately, the chances of getting into combat are slim and it's a 600+ point unit!

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