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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Sun Apr 19 2015, 18:12

I'll start thinking about what will take down a Wraithknight when I have the book; I'm just responding to the question of whether or not we have fleshbane beyond ichor injectors. (There's also necrotoxin missiles.)

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Sun Apr 19 2015, 18:27

The  thing I am most upset about with the new Eldar codex is how DE didn't get even a fraction of the buffs the Eldar are getting.  Except for the expected nerf the Serpent Shield, literally every unit got better.  Wyches having HWG was obviously OP, but Swooping Hawks can have them and they can also use them down fliers just my moving OVER them while they're in mid-flight.  Other than missiles, we have pretty much no Str6 shooting in our entire army, but their basic troops (who are also the best OS units in the game) can get four shots each on EVERY model?  The one shooting weapon we have that can actually wound the new WK easily, Ossefactor, can only be taken by one Wrack in a squad?  Having Liquifiers that were Str4 was too OP, but WG get STRD(!) template weapons?  Dark Reapers can get BS5 in addition to their ignore Jink?  Fire Dragons can now explode our paper planes on a 3+?  Combined with mass Str6, I'm not sure DE vehicles are even worth bringing anymore, as each unit of jet bikes can down one per turn.  Banshees and Scorpions are what Wyches and Incubi should have been?  Really, GW?  

I'm trying not to get too depressed without having played it, but it's really hard right now.   It feels like we have a codex was that made for an entirely different game when compared what the new Eldar are getting.  

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go look for some counter-tactics at the bottom of a scotch bottle.
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Sun Apr 19 2015, 19:17

I'm afraid that other races aren't better off against.... wait. Grav weapons. Damn. Marines can do it.

Tyranids are screwed, too.

Tau? Necrons?

Chaos Marines are doomed, too.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Sun Apr 19 2015, 19:28

@Calyptra wrote:
I'm just responding to the question of whether or not we have fleshbane beyond ichor injectors. (There's also necrotoxin missiles.)

Fair enough.

I thought we had another Fleshbane weapon, but I couldn't remember what it was (possibly ironic, since I actually use Wracks).

It's a shame, because if Acothysts and Haemonculi could take ossefactors, then it might actually be a legitimate strategy in general.

@sweetbacon wrote:
The  thing I am most upset about with the new Eldar codex is how DE didn't get even a fraction of the buffs the Eldar are getting.  Except for the expected nerf the Serpent Shield, literally every unit got better.  Wyches having HWG was obviously OP, but Swooping Hawks can have them and they can also use them down fliers just my moving OVER them while they're in mid-flight.  Other than missiles, we have pretty much no Str6 shooting in our entire army, but their basic troops (who are also the best OS units in the game) can get four shots each on EVERY model?  The one shooting weapon we have that can actually wound the new WK easily, Ossefactor, can only be taken by one Wrack in a squad?  Having Liquifiers that were Str4 was too OP, but WG get STRD(!) template weapons?  Dark Reapers can get BS5 in addition to their ignore Jink?  Fire Dragons can now explode our paper planes on a 3+?  Combined with mass Str6, I'm not sure DE vehicles are even worth bringing anymore, as each unit of jet bikes can down one per turn.  Banshees and Scorpions are what Wyches and Incubi should have been?  Really, GW?  

I'm trying not to get too depressed without having played it, but it's really hard right now.   It feels like we have a codex was that made for an entirely different game when compared what the new Eldar are getting.  

I completely agree.

It's more than a little infuriating to see Eldar (already one of the strongest books) getting exceptional buffs basically across he board, whilst so many of our already-poor units and options got nerfed into the ground, or even removed entirely.

@sweetbacon wrote:

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go look for some counter-tactics at the bottom of a scotch bottle.

lol!
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Sun Apr 19 2015, 19:52

@sweetbacon wrote:
The  thing I am most upset about with the new Eldar codex is how DE didn't get even a fraction of the buffs the Eldar are getting.  Except for the expected nerf the Serpent Shield, literally every unit got better.  Wyches having HWG was obviously OP, but Swooping Hawks can have them and they can also use them down fliers just my moving OVER them while they're in mid-flight.  Other than missiles, we have pretty much no Str6 shooting in our entire army, but their basic troops (who are also the best OS units in the game) can get four shots each on EVERY model?  The one shooting weapon we have that can actually wound the new WK easily, Ossefactor, can only be taken by one Wrack in a squad?  Having Liquifiers that were Str4 was too OP, but WG get STRD(!) template weapons?  Dark Reapers can get BS5 in addition to their ignore Jink?  Fire Dragons can now explode our paper planes on a 3+?  Combined with mass Str6, I'm not sure DE vehicles are even worth bringing anymore, as each unit of jet bikes can down one per turn.  Banshees and Scorpions are what Wyches and Incubi should have been?  Really, GW?  

I'm trying not to get too depressed without having played it, but it's really hard right now.   It feels like we have a codex was that made for an entirely different game when compared what the new Eldar are getting.  

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go look for some counter-tactics at the bottom of a scotch bottle.

Give me a pen and I will sign this.
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Sun Apr 19 2015, 20:33

Maybe when we get the new vect model it will have d str lance weapons that can shot multiple times and we can spam it bc vect has a lot clones. Sorry I got into scotch a little early that was mentioned above.
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Sun Apr 19 2015, 21:13

@pehldog63 wrote:
Maybe when we get the new vect model it will have d str lance weapons that can shot multiple times and we can spam it bc vect has a lot clones. Sorry I got into scotch a little early that was mentioned above.

GW's counter offer is a Str3 Power Weapon and a Splinter Pistol. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Sun Apr 19 2015, 21:57

@sweetbacon wrote:
@pehldog63 wrote:
Maybe when we get the new vect model it will have d str lance weapons that can shot multiple times and we can spam it bc vect has a lot clones. Sorry I got into scotch a little early that was mentioned above.

GW's counter offer is a Str3 Power Weapon and a Splinter Pistol.   Very Happy

GW: "After extensive playtesting, this build was considered too overpowered (the DE player actually managed to win one out of twenty games). So, we've decided to remove Poison 4+ from the splinter pistol, and to make the power weapon S2. Have fun forging the narrative with the unstoppable lord of Commorragh!"
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urden93
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Sun Apr 19 2015, 22:01

dont forget T2 and must roll LD-6 else remove cus he is hungry for souls Razz
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Sun Apr 19 2015, 22:27

You guys are making my new vect sound awesome. My brother's eldar are going to be running in terror when vect comes out. My brother said he will run 500 pts less then me and he would still win. I told him lets play a 500 pt game then. My first and only victory against the new eldar codex.
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Sun Apr 19 2015, 23:38

Pretty much what sweetbacon said.

In a vacuum I'd be happy enough with all the aspect warrior buffs; they're supposed to be the pinnacle of ability in their particular specialisation. Although the points seem a bit lowball.

It's the comparison to what Dark Eldar get that rankles. Banshees needed a buff, and unlike Wyches, they got one. Scorpion Exarchs get special rules that got streamlined away from Lelith. Etc, etc.

Fair enough if Craftworlders are more resilient than we are (armour, wraithbone, special rules, etc). They should be. They focus more on survival, when an Archon can just grow more followers in a vat. But when they are also faster (much faster now) with better weapons... it's hard not to think "What are we, chopped liver?"

Is be quite happy to be a glass cannon. But sometimes it feels more like we're a glass water pistol.

I guess we know how Dark Angels feel now.

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Mon Apr 20 2015, 00:29

GW Executive:  Sir, it appears the hobbyists are complaining about those words we wrote down for our new Necron models..."rules", I think they're called?  

GW Ceo:  Really?  What seems to be the problem?

GW Executive:  Apparently, if played according to the whatdoyacallit, "rules", the new Necrons don't really die.  

GW Ceo:  Huh.  Did we notice that in our play testing?  

GW Executive:  No sir.  We played two 500 point games with them before the release, but didn't notice any issues.  Of course, I will allow that we might have gotten distracted by all the beer we were drinking to wash down those salty, yet delicious, pretzels.  

GW Ceo:  I do love beer and pretzels.  

GW Executive:  Yes, sir.  As do we all.  What should we do about the Necrons?  

GW Ceo:  Push up the new Eldar release.  Nothing Necrons hate more than Str D weapons and we packed that sucker full of the D--wait a minute, has play testing indicated that there might be any issues with the new Eldar rules?  I mean, I don't want to have to move up the new Tau release to deal with Eldar if it turns out there's a problem.  

GW Executive:  No, sir.  We toned down the Serpent Shield which is what our customer base asked for.  Oh and we also *coughmadeeverythingelsewaybettercough*

GW Ceo:  What was that last part?  

GW Executive:  Oh nothing, I think I just had a bit of pretzel lodged in my throat.  

GW Ceo:  Oh dear. Here have some beer to wash it down with.  Actually, let's have a toast.  To us.  For our sensible solution which I'm sure will have no unintended consequences whatsoever.  

GW Executive:  I'll drink to that!
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Mon Apr 20 2015, 02:21

Hey at least I can agree that I too in fact love beer and pretzels, in fact I literally just had a bag of Snyders Honey Mustard and Onion pretzel bits and right now I am drinking a beer. Check Mate GW.

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Mon Apr 20 2015, 06:08

I badly want to see and do some games against our cousins. Anybody done some yet?

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Mon Apr 20 2015, 08:13

i fear for us, i already see the tournament scene eldar wraithguard with dark eldar wwps, we are the key from taking this new codex from powerful to COMPLETE CHEESE 255 - 415 points to drop on the field and remove your enemys favorite toy.

we could do this before but it wasnt quite as .... dirty

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Mon Apr 20 2015, 12:25

Hi. I'm deamon and I'm a jerk.

In competitive gaming, I'm certainly going to take a squad of Wraithguard (d-scythe) with a WWP Archon because it's the best way to kill those damn knights and super deathstar.

Now... I don't think I will take this in friendly games at my FLGS where almost no one runs uber lists. Firstly it would make me a huge jerk and secondly, most of the list I face have the perfect counter for such a units : no interesting target. Sure, I would be able to erase a Vindicator here, a unit of 3 thunderwolves there and maybe if I'm lucky a Riptide... and that's it.

That's my prediction for the impact of the Eldar codex on the meta : MSU. Once that units is on the table, it's pretty easy to avoid it. Oh sure it can take a raider (but can't be joined by the archon if they start embarked upon it) but what's easyer to kill than a raider anyway? Once it's on foot, it's easily avoidable.
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Mon Apr 20 2015, 12:30

Quote :
That's my prediction for the impact of the Eldar codex on the meta : MSU.

Then again the D-scythe unit does not have a large footprint and nothing stops Eldar (the kings of msu) from spamming 3 man windrider squads with heavy weapons.

I would not even take the d-scythe Wraithguard + archon but 2 hemlocks instead which come which stay mobile have 2 D blasts, vectordancer and are lvl 2 psykers with 3 schools to chose from.
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Mon Apr 20 2015, 14:00

I don't know. Flyers, even with Vector Dancers, can be avoided by a fast army. I used to do pretty well versus Aircron in 6th. Avoid their line of fire as much as possible and play the objectives.

3 man wind riders are a problem though.
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Mon Apr 20 2015, 16:30

I've been following all the Eldar talk because I was genuinely surprised GW created this codex after the trend they set with decent codexes the last months. This seems to be so off the charts unbalanced that Im really wondering who thought all of this up and what the reasoning behind it was.
Must be business because I don't believe anyone thought these rules were good.

Having said that I always love to come to TDC because of the Can-Do spirit present here. I agree with my fellow poster above, MSU seems to be the best option to fight this off.
The D-weapons aren't that big of a deal against lots of small units. The massed S6 shooting might, but only if they take their bikes in small units as well and only if they fill the bikes with special weapons.
I havent quite figured out what to do against the potential massed S6 shooting besides not playing, but I am a pretty mediocre player at best. Anyone have any ideas?
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Mon Apr 20 2015, 16:47

if they take tons of shuriken cannons we have nothing to counter them except covens (not hard counter just something that can survive the shots easier)

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Mon Apr 20 2015, 18:14

I think a good way of living through the eldar shooting is taking a lot of deep striking units so that DE get to shoot first. It can be risky for sure. But that's better than waiting to get shot to crap. Maybe wwp gunboats for the bikes. Lance and poision for constructs. Maybe even rezorwing for large blasting bike/guard to death. DE have the tools. It'll just be one hell of a ride

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Mon Apr 20 2015, 18:22

Well, i have read all the Eldar Rumours and they sound pretty ridicolous. Unless there is massive points change thats way off the charts of the currents balance.

Aspect warriors sounds pretty fluffy, but they are all no brainers. I mean for example Dark Reapers, reroll to hit against flyers, turbo boosted stuff AND ignore Jink. Yeah totally fine. Just why so many goodies?

Too damn good. Maybe codex will show something later, but right now my earlier optimist regarding fighting them is diminished. This army will not require much thought and will play by itself.

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Sat Apr 25 2015, 13:23

Would be fun to add CWE scatterbikes to run about alongside DE splintervenoms carrying fire dragons, anti-everything in a nice antigrav package.

The Windrider host rules are bizarre though in how they exclude scatter lasers which look to be the premiere choice for windrider jetbikes. Something related to skillful rider or melee combat (like everyone gets an extra HoW attack) would've made more sense.
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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Mon Apr 27 2015, 23:07

I don't have the new codex yet, but I did read through it at the store and also got some info from the White Dwarf. And there sure are a few changes that make me scratch my head.

The Scatter Laser does no longer grant re-rolls. Now it is basically the same as a Shuriken Cannon, except with one more shot, one less AP and without Bladestorm. And for some reason, it is recommended as an anti-vehicle weapon? AP 6 Heavy 4 sounds more like something to be used against GEQs.
scratch

The almost complete loss of Pinning is the hardest blow for me though. I'm glad I didn't buy the scatter-laser-and-launcher-staring support force for close combat DE I had in mind yet. That option is out of the window now.

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PostSubject: Re: New eldar codex next? - Wed. April 15 pics p2, Fri. April 17 pre-orders p4   Mon Apr 27 2015, 23:55

Quote :
And for some reason, it is recommended as an anti-vehicle weapon? AP 6 Heavy 4 sounds more like something to be used against GEQs.

12" more range than the Canon, 1 shot more. Bladestorm is only on wound rolls, not on AP rolls.
So yes, it is the better anti-vehicle weapon.
Given the fact that every jetbike now can use one, a 6 men unit spams 24 S6 shots. That is enough to make even an AV12 vehicle worry.
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