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 Dealing with a Tzeentch Screamer Star

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Dark Lance
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PostSubject: Dealing with a Tzeentch Screamer Star   Tue Mar 31 2015, 18:47

Gents,

Given its success at LVO and Adepticon, I've been thinking about the Tzeentch Screamer Star. It is very effective. It can deep strike, moves like a jet bike, attacks in multiple modes including melta and when grimoired with another spell to buff the invul save has a 2++ save and Tzeentch demons reroll 1s. Whew! Very survivable, mobile and deadly.

Do we have a counter?

As long as the grimoire goes off it is virtually un-killable. What about tar-pitting it? I was thinking of 20 kabalite warriors, led by a Haemy with a Chronus 6" behind. That's getting close to equal points costs but maybe the star does other things and successfully avoids the range of that unit.

I don't have a no-brainer solution. Do you?
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MarcoAvrelis
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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with a Tzeentch Screamer Star   Tue Mar 31 2015, 19:37

I'd recommend distracting and tarpitting it.
Also, good idea to have a unit of caltrop-reavers ready to charge as soon as the star doesn't get the Invulnerability boost, also, a void-mine might be good, but A) thy jink and 2) they're most likely invisible.


I'm gonna fight one next friday in a tournament. He'll have a CAD of 1 Karios, 2 heralds of khorne on juggs, 2 heralds of tzeentch on disks, 3 bases of nurglings, 10 pink horrors, 15 fleshhounds, 9 screamers, and since it's allowed in this specific tournament, an Allied Det. of 1 be'lakor and 3 more bases of nurglings.

(since nurglings and horrors will die quickly, you can say he only has 4 units (vs my 12))

My plan is, due to lack of AV, to avoid one star and feed the other Haywire scourges. (also, drop a voidmine on the hounds), while focusing on the FMCs.
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Javorra
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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with a Tzeentch Screamer Star   Tue Mar 31 2015, 19:42

Dark Artisan is a tremendous tarpit for screamers. They are wounded only on 6 with lamprey's bite and still use the 4+ fnp (rerolling 1s if the haemy is the warlord)
The only issue is they are damn slow to reach them, so you could keep them close to your vehicles, if they want to break them with the screamerstar they need to get close.
Don't think warriors can be of any use, they are wounded on 3+ with the normal attacks and only save with a 5+ fnp. And if you lose combat you have to test if it's not the 4th turn and they got fearless.
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Khordajj
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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with a Tzeentch Screamer Star   Tue Mar 31 2015, 20:01

What point level?
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Dark Lance
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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with a Tzeentch Screamer Star   Tue Mar 31 2015, 20:30

Here is the LVO list. I think he tweaked it for Adepticon. http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Nick-Nanavati-5th-Overall-Las-Vegas-Open-2015.pdf Points = 1850

My thoughts on the warrior tarpit was that with the chronus and haemy by turn 2 they have a 5+ 4+fnp.

His list as a whole is very difficult as he can sit back and decide what to fight and select what he summons for that task. So if you have a tarpit unit. He might summon a unit to tar pit you.

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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with a Tzeentch Screamer Star   Wed Apr 01 2015, 02:02

@Dark Lance wrote:
Here is the LVO list.  I think he tweaked it for Adepticon.  http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Nick-Nanavati-5th-Overall-Las-Vegas-Open-2015.pdf   Points = 1850

My thoughts on the warrior tarpit was that with the chronus and haemy by turn 2 they have a 5+ 4+fnp.  

His list as a whole is very difficult as he can sit back and decide what to fight and select what he summons for that task.  So if you have a tarpit unit.  He might summon a unit to tar pit you.  


For this work, wyches are better
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Dark Lance
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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with a Tzeentch Screamer Star   Wed Apr 01 2015, 02:38

I think you are right and if you are just thinking about defeating him with equal or fewer points you still have some points left over for a second squad of objective secured wyches or quite a few other options that might take a spot on the battlefield to help "capture" the star.
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Sigmaril
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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with a Tzeentch Screamer Star   Wed Apr 01 2015, 11:33

Instead of going with a big unit of wyches, try instead with several 10-man units in raiders. That way you actually have a shot at catching him. No way a large unit on foot will ever catch a screamerstar otherwise.
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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with a Tzeentch Screamer Star   Wed Apr 01 2015, 14:24

I think nick used his spells on the plague drones and not the screamers, btw. Screamers without grimoire are still quite good. But he won becuase of the plague drones fronting his force. They are nigh unkillable.

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Bleaksoul Brethren
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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with a Tzeentch Screamer Star   Wed Apr 01 2015, 18:33

That list is easy to beat if you go first (second it should still be but the target priority is different). Assuming that the plague drones are in ruins
Target priority if you go first in order: Fateweaver, 1 wound off of the 11 man horror squad, Screamer squad with herald till dead, screamer squad with herald till dead, plague drones. Depending on where the grimnoire is placed will affect target priority so if it is on a screamer squad ignore that squad and focus the drones when they leave cover. Kill the horrors when you have a chance.
If you go second and Fate weaver is flying: 1 wound of 11 man horror squad, Screamer squad with herald till dead, screamer squad with herald till dead, plague drones (again assuming plague drones are in cover).
Just keep moving away at max range and give the mobile stuff things to kill that are not important.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with a Tzeentch Screamer Star   Thu Apr 02 2015, 01:14

@Dark Lance wrote:
I think you are right and if you are just thinking about defeating him with equal or fewer points you still have some points left over for a second squad of objective secured wyches or quite a few other options that might take a spot on the battlefield to help "capture" the star.  
 

That is why these girls are writted for Smile

But don't use 1 large unit: use multiple small units. 5-5 on Venoms, or 5-5-5 on Venoms.
Always Heka for LD9 (10 some times..) and Haywire greneade (just for help in other games: multiple units throws multiple greneades).
If u need 10 Wyches in that CC, simply launch 2 squads of 5 members. If u have Grotesques, amazing, assault with Grots AND Wyches: you have some 4++ shield for these big meat guys.
Etc etc etc...Wyches have a lot of use, just think sinergic.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with a Tzeentch Screamer Star   Thu Apr 02 2015, 08:19

Just to clarify, witches can't use their 4++ dodge save against overwatch. Right?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with a Tzeentch Screamer Star   Thu Apr 02 2015, 09:45

@CptMetal wrote:
Just to clarify, witches can't use their 4++ dodge save against overwatch. Right?

Correct. Overwatch happens in the Charge sub-phase but Dodge applies only in the Fight sub-phase.

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with a Tzeentch Screamer Star   Thu Apr 02 2015, 10:37

That's why I don't use them anymore. And the lack of Haywire...
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with a Tzeentch Screamer Star   Thu Apr 02 2015, 12:13

@CptMetal wrote:
That's why I don't use them anymore. And the lack of Haywire...

That's not a problem imho
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lustigjh
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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with a Tzeentch Screamer Star   Tue Apr 07 2015, 18:07

Reavers will counter invisibility if you get the charge. The issue with Tzeentch Heralds is that they're nearly on par with IG in terms of CC ability. Scarlet Epicureans' precision strikes might actually come in handy here.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with a Tzeentch Screamer Star   Tue Apr 07 2015, 19:05

Sadly precision strikes do not negate "Look out Sir" and thus it becomes kinda useless.
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lustigjh
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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with a Tzeentch Screamer Star   Tue Apr 07 2015, 23:13

Sure, but LOS goes to the nearest model, which is possibly another Herald
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Sigmaril
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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with a Tzeentch Screamer Star   Tue Apr 07 2015, 23:45

it probably won't be, but even if it is, that Herald will have 2++ rerollable as well.. Only the book-wielder isn't affected by the book. The rest of the unit is.
Precision Strikes are still nice, though. 1's DO happen on occation, and the Herald havent got an abundance of wounds.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with a Tzeentch Screamer Star   Wed Apr 08 2015, 22:12

Quote :
Precision Strikes are still nice, though. 1's DO happen on occation, and the Herald havent got an abundance of wounds.

Yes, they do happen but you will need 3 in a row to cause 1 wound...
Chance of 1/216... nothing I would count on.
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Dark Lance
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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with a Tzeentch Screamer Star   Mon Apr 13 2015, 21:16

Well having come back to this post, my conclusion is you must fight everything else and bad news if you have a lynchpin unit that these daemons can kill or stall.

I note that these daemons and many others don't have a ranged attack so wyches are quite useful if you can get them stuck in (no worries on overwatch). Talos and grotesques if their #s aren't too many.

Best of luck when dealing with this issue.
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