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 Reaver Jetbike Advice

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SCP Yeeman
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PostSubject: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Sun Mar 22 2015, 18:13

On paper, Reavers look great. They seem like they can put out the hurt on units with all of their Rending attacks and can leave combat with Hit and Run. They have Skilled Rider which helps with survivability and they are extremely fast. However, I have some reservations.

Reservation #1: If you want them to be an effective CC unit, 6 doesn't seem like it is enough. 9 feels like the right number. Thoughts?

Reservation #2: How reliable in CC are they. How often do you guys get lots of them in B2B with the enemy to take advantage of their HoW attacks? It seems like all those Rending attacks look awesome on paper, but not practical in the game because if you are not in B2B then they are just throwing some Str. 3 (possible 4 with Drugs or FC) around and that's not the best.

Reservation #3: No Fleet. I know they are fast. I know with HoW attacks they will do some work, but without fleet the reliability of getting into CC and getting those attacks seems like it will not be a for sure thing.

Reservation #4: Special weapon upgrades. These seem to be a pitfall you may fall in to. If someone shoots them, they have to Jink otherwise their 5+ AS will not save them. By Jinking you are Snap Firing those Special weapons. Is the 20-30pts worth it or have you guys found that those points to be used elsewhere.

Those of you that have used them, please let me know if my reservations are misplaced or if they make sense and you too have ran into these problems. I am skeptical at investing $ and points into my lists for them because they seem so good.. on paper. But it seems in playing terms, HoW seems too unreliable to be the main source of dmg, which is where they seem to be doing most of their damage.

I'd like to open the discussion and get some dialogue going! Appreciate it!
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Mth
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Sun Mar 22 2015, 18:25

I love reavers they are just amazing. I played a game not long ago and they killed a mauloch by themselves with bs2 and ws2. Caltrops are amazing and I usually don't take special weapons as they are two costly as mine jink. I usually field mine in 9 and always take a arena champion with an agonizer.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Sun Mar 22 2015, 18:52

I personally don't buy the shooting upgrades.

I have been disappointed with their performance in this edition, but that's because I can't not compare them to last edition. When I eventually get over my despair at the loss of fly-over attacks, I may start running them again.
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Ispa
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Sun Mar 22 2015, 22:44

i have found them to be most efective tank killers as a group of 6 min. 2xD6 S6 rending 4xS4 rending usually takes out a vehicle's RA10. Also agree with the no weapon upgrades as mine are either jinking or turbo boosting to steal objectives/get in charge position.

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Mon Mar 23 2015, 07:26

@Ispa but Hammer of wrath attacks are applied to the facing you attack. And it may not always be that easy to attack the rear armour of a tank. That's why I haven't used mine yet this edition...
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Omega1907
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Mon Mar 23 2015, 09:11

@CptMetal wrote:
@Ispa but Hammer of wrath attacks are applied to the facing you attack. And it may not always be that easy to attack the rear armour of a tank. That's why I haven't used mine yet this edition...

While that is true, they really excel at taking down light vehicles like landspeeders. You can tackle something heavier in the side, not all tanks have the same AV all around ... and side armour is much easier to achieve. With a squad of 6 with two caltrops you have a good chance to take out a Predator from the side for example.

@SCP Yeeman:
I'm with you, that they seem more killy on paper than on the table. BUT they are a huge distraction! Even in squads of 3 the enemy has to deal with them. If you ignore the reavers, they have a good chance to shaken your backfield tanks or kill your artillery.

Yes, they do their most damage through HoW hits, but they are dirt cheap, are great for giving your raiders/ravagers a cover save, and can threaten nearly every thing. I always take a few in my army, even when they die in the first 2 rounds - mobile cover Smile

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Mon Mar 23 2015, 11:53

#1: 6 with 2 CC are cheap and effective anti-infantry and anti-light to medium vehicle.

#2: As they are very fast and have HoW, getting them into B2B is not a problem.  

#3: No I haven't found the lack of fleet to be a problem as you can get so close before charging.

#4: Just give em caltrops.

Reavers take some practice and skill to make them work, If you charge them into you opponents face you deserve to lose them for no gain.

With super turbo, jink, move in the assault phase after shooting, skilled rider, hit and run and HoW they just own maelstrom games (as well as your opponent backfield).

For advanced tactics check out...
The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Screening with Reavers
The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Blocking with Reavers
The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Disembark Blocking with Reavers
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Rancid blade
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Mon Mar 23 2015, 14:45

I've found that six are just fine. I usually run them with two caltrops and two heat lances. I like having the option of being able to pop a heavy tank. Also, if you can get into charge range without having jinked, you can shoot with the lances and then either follow up with an assault on the tank you just blasted or the guys that came out.

Don't forget that they have combat drugs. Those can be great. Tough five bikes are beastly...

It is difficult to put them into a list these days, there are so many other goodies that I like to take.

RB
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Mon Mar 23 2015, 22:16

I play 12 of theme, with 4 caltrops and a Champion for LD9. I like theme Smile
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SCP Yeeman
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Mon Mar 23 2015, 23:32

The squad I am proposing is the following:

x9 Reavers, Arena Champ, x3 Caltrops, x3 Heatlances
Autarch, Bike, Fusion Gun, Soulshrive, Banshee Mask

I want another viable CC unit. Was not sure if another squad of Grotesques was the way to go.

What targets do you guys usually send the Reavers at? Multi-Assault vehicles? Clean up little squads? Or do you guys throw them into a full 10 man Marine squad and try to weather the beating you get in return?

To me they seem very fragile in CC and seems that if a unit can fight back, you are all but guaranteed to lose Bikes.
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Mon Apr 20 2015, 05:37

Take 72. Let the hate flow through your opponent and bring some gun boats and an Archon...mayb e scourges.
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Unholyllama
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Mon Apr 20 2015, 16:31

My own experiences with Reavers echo pretty much what everyone else has said. Units of 6-9, caltrops, no shooting upgrades, and an arena champion.

One specific thing that I do that hasn't been mentioned is that I make sure that 1 of my caltrops is on the Arena Champion. Applying the D6 S6 Rending HoW attacks to a challenge has worked surprisingly well for character sniping. Even if I have bad rolls, it's still 2-3 S6 HoW hits that my opponent has to deal with before I hit him at initiative.

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Mon Apr 20 2015, 19:42

@Unholyllama so one can apply the HoW attacks in a challenge to kill a character? What a brilliant idea!
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Unholyllama
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Mon Apr 20 2015, 20:21

@CptMetal wrote:
@Unholyllama so one can apply the HoW attacks in a challenge to kill a character? What a brilliant idea!

Yes. HoW attacks happen at I10 so if you declare a challenge, the HoW attack goes onto the model that accepts your challenge instead of the squad. Great when going up against CSM and Black Templar players that have to accept/declare challenges.
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Mon Apr 20 2015, 22:31

Don't forget they still bleed over if you get the chance
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Dark Lance
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Wed Apr 22 2015, 01:54

I just commented that the way to kill Eldar windriders is to attack their leadership. Why do I think this way? Because good players have forced my reavers off the board on turn 1 too many times.

I think we need to pay attention to how fragile they are versus how great they become. I don't know if it is good advice to put them in reserve but for know I like to play with some reserve manipulation (autarch, comms relay) and bring them in on turn 2. Then we start to see PfP kick in and I get further away from our table edge.
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Ispa
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Wed Apr 22 2015, 04:07

@Unholyllama wrote:
My own experiences with Reavers echo pretty much what everyone else has said.  Units of 6-9, caltrops, no shooting upgrades, and an arena champion.  

One specific thing that I do that hasn't been mentioned is that I make sure that 1 of my caltrops is on the Arena Champion.  Applying the D6 S6 Rending HoW attacks to a challenge has worked surprisingly well for character sniping.  Even if I have bad rolls, it's still 2-3 S6 HoW hits that my opponent has to deal with before I hit him at initiative.


Do you give the champion any weapon upgrades? or not need usually.

I find CC to be the only upgrades required usually.

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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Wed Apr 22 2015, 06:07

Is their armor 3 or 4 up? The reason I ask is because someone told me 3 up. Meaning 3 up with a 4 up jink
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Ispa
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Wed Apr 22 2015, 06:19

@JackKnife01 wrote:
Is their armor 3 or 4 up? The reason I ask is because someone told me 3 up. Meaning 3 up with a 4 up jink

reavers are 5+ with a 3+jink....eldar windrunners (i think there called) are 3+ with 4+jink

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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Wed Apr 22 2015, 06:32

Interesting. That is kind of a pain.
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Wed Apr 22 2015, 08:18

Hmmm deep striking gun boats perhaps? I know they will do a lot of damage and they get armor. Still. 20 poison and 2 dark lances will make their squads jink. Get some survivable units to withstand the first turn and have a chance.....that or run and gun as much as you can.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Wed Apr 22 2015, 10:59

Close combat and flame weapons is the best way to kill them I guess.
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Rotten Deadite
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Wed Apr 22 2015, 14:09

A quick question about Hit and Run, if you guys don't mind?

I'm not sure what the point is.

You go through a turn of CC and at the end you move 3D6 in (I assume) any direction you like. Then your opponent, now out of combat, consolidates D6.

I thought this would be useful because it meant you could Hammer of Wrath back into combat on your next turn. But instead it seems like it just gives your opponent the opportunity to charge your Reavers on his following turn.

What am I missing? Only Hit and Run over dangerous terrain, maybe? Or is it something you should only use when charging vehicles?
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Wed Apr 22 2015, 14:25

Hit and Run can be used at the end of either player's Assault turn. So don't do it in your own, wait until the end of your opponent's turn and then do it. Then your turn starts and you can HoW again.
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The PayneTrayn
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver Jetbike Advice   Wed Apr 22 2015, 14:27

You hit and run at the end of their combat phase, allowing you to shoot and charge on your turn.

Ninja'd!
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