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 how to deal with Imperial Knigths

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lipigash
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PostSubject: how to deal with Imperial Knigths   Mon Mar 16 2015, 15:08

A friend just start to use a Imperial Knight and im actually worried about that, how you guys deal with that?
can i ignore the IK?
i noticed that a the explodes results on the damage table is not available, but i cant see a thing about the haywire damage, so it's seem to be the way to destroy it (hopefully in one turn), but i have my doubts
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with Imperial Knigths   Mon Mar 16 2015, 15:39

If it's just a single Imperial Knight it really isn't too bad to deal with.
Functionally, yes, you can ignore it.

You can also kill it - the best way is to get multiple units into at least 2 separate facings. (so you have stuff shooting it from, for instance, the front facing and a side facing. This will obligate it to not have its shield save for about half of what you're shooting at it.

Haywire works great.
Lances are fine.
WWP or DSing in Raiders w. Trueborn or an Archon w. Fire Dragons or Scourges or something like that works pretty sweet as well, you can also place them right on th eline of the facings and then choose to fire on whichever facing doesn't get the shield.

Whatever is close to the Knight when you kill it prepare to lose though - but, at the cot of the Knight, probably not a big concern.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with Imperial Knigths   Mon Mar 16 2015, 15:40

Here's one way to do it.

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with Imperial Knigths   Mon Mar 16 2015, 18:53

I've been informed someone plans to bring 3 knights and a warhound titan to an 1850 tournament at my FLGS. Any ideas on that one? Besides killing my opponent literally as I wouldn't do well in prison.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with Imperial Knigths   Mon Mar 16 2015, 21:13

What are the detachment restrictions?

And Adhemar, that's BRUTAL. So doing that.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with Imperial Knigths   Mon Mar 16 2015, 22:40

It's just a two source army. I don't know about any restrictions myself.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with Imperial Knigths   Mon Mar 16 2015, 23:38

If so, then nothing stops you from having multiple WWP units with anti-armor weapons, as Adhemar linked to a description of.
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nexs
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with Imperial Knigths   Mon Mar 16 2015, 23:59

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Here's one way to do it.

My thoughts exactly
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jbwms713
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with Imperial Knigths   Tue Mar 17 2015, 00:43

@The Red King wrote:
I've been informed someone plans to bring 3 knights and a warhound titan to an 1850 tournament at my FLGS. Any ideas on that one?  Besides killing my opponent literally as I wouldn't do well in prison.

Eish... I'd be tempted to let him set up, go through the motions, and then shake his hand to congratulate his victory and walk off for a pint...

Shrug.

It's one thing to build a list that could actually deal with this, which could probably be done, but it's another to have it multi-task to do anything else particularly well.

On the other hand, between his relatively small damage output and your potential for a lot of ObSec units, you can probably plan to jink every turn and just play objectives all game. He can't even contest vs your troops... if you can get any luck with jinks, you can actually nullify the vast majority of his shooting. He can what, try to target 5 things a turn? 3 knights, plus 2 targets with the Warhound (I'm assuming the turbo lasers here). Keep spread out, and keep jinking. Between average cover saves and the occasional 1 on his part, there's not a lot of damage he's putting out with shooting. Keep an eye on his charge bubble, and focus on the Warhound for bonus points.

Shrug? Hopefully helpful.
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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with Imperial Knigths   Tue Mar 17 2015, 09:28

I found that Knights have a surprising weakness to fliers. Their big guns are template weapons after all.

I have never played against a Forgeworld Titan, but I heard that they can have skyfire weapons, so flierspam might not be a safe way to deal with them.


Last edited by Rokuro on Wed Mar 18 2015, 08:28; edited 1 time in total
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with Imperial Knigths   Tue Mar 17 2015, 11:31

Thanks for the link Count Adhemar.

I'm glad I could help my fellow archons.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with Imperial Knigths   Tue Mar 17 2015, 17:25

@jbwms713 wrote:
It's one thing to build a list that could actually deal with this, which could probably be done, but it's another to have it multi-task to do anything else particularly well.
I disagree, my usual TAC build handles Adamantine Lance perfectly fine. I think the DE are actually uniquely suited for stomping on Knights.

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lipigash
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with Imperial Knigths   Tue Mar 17 2015, 18:47

thanks a lot guys for sharing your wisdom
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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with Imperial Knigths   Wed Mar 18 2015, 08:24

Agree with Thor. Lance is not scary for DE. Those knights can be lanced/haywired/blocked quite easy with typical DE list. No so with some Coven heavy approaches.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with Imperial Knigths   Thu Mar 19 2015, 07:18

@Vasara wrote:
Agree with Thor. Lance is not scary for DE. Those knights can be lanced/haywired/blocked quite easy with typical DE list. No so with some Coven heavy approaches.

Honestly, in this matchup I feel as the Coven player your best bet is to position army as well as you can and hope your opponent gets unlucky with his Stomp, D-weapon, Difficult Terrain and Charge Rolls. See this report below for an example:

BR4: Repugnant Ramblers Vs Imperial Knights - 1250pts

Hope that helps. Very Happy

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killedbydeath
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with Imperial Knigths   Fri Mar 20 2015, 10:33

I was scared the first time I faced a knight with my normal dark eldar list. I even had a lot of units couldn't hurt the knight (or the dreadnougt spam he ran against me). But after it lost a hull point and assaulted my unit of to talos... I thought the game was lost. But one cc round later the knight was 4 hull points down and it took 1-2wounds of the talos. It hit on +4 so 1-2 attacks hit if it doesn't wound on a 6 you get a 5+ save and the stomp is even worse if it doesn't get roll a 6. You hit on a 3 and pen it on 4+ ap 2.

If my friend wasn't so lucky the knight with his +4 shield save. The knights had die in the first turn of combat.

If you run the talos formation with haywire the knight is no problem.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with Imperial Knigths   Fri Apr 03 2015, 03:13

Sorry to necro but I actually faced the list tonight (titan w/ 3 knights) and I'm the one who felt like a jerk. I went unbound counter list.

Wwp fire dragons.
3 forgeworld reapers
2 haywire scourge squads
3 trueborn squads with lances.
5 shadow seers throwing out stealth/shrouded and veil of tears.

Also a mantle autarch.

He had first turn so I deployed only my autarch on bike out of los. His first turn did nothing. My turn 1 all my reserves came in thanks to autarch and his warhound died turn 1...

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lessthanjeff
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with Imperial Knigths   Fri Apr 03 2015, 10:42

Autarch doesn't let reserves come in turn 1. It lets you add or subtract 1 from the roll to see if they come in starting from turn 2.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with Imperial Knigths   Fri Apr 03 2015, 10:43

I'm aware.  My turn 1 I did nothing.  My mistake I must have said something wrong up there.  Or perhaps I forgot turn 1 as I literally did nothing but pass the turn.

I was in a drive through. I meant my turn 2 as I managed to seize on him. It felt like my turn 1 as I literally "deployed" on turn 2 with everything walking on or in the case of fire dragons deep striking.

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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with Imperial Knigths   Tue Apr 07 2015, 10:38

Edited that double post for you ///Vasara

Why?

He deployed first? Why did he go first when you "null" deployed? Why did you steal initiative? Was it KP only mission?

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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with Imperial Knigths   Wed Apr 08 2015, 20:51

I don't know his thought process on going first. I thought I should not have stolen but actually if he'd had an extra turn he may have drawn los to my autarch and made a very short game.

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