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 Hexrifle or Liquifier Gun - which do you dislike the least?

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Hexrifle or Liquifier Gun - which do you dislike the least?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 11:20

I'm planning to use a Haemonculus in a 5-man Wrack squad, and I intend to give the Haemonculus and Acothyst a ranged weapon.

So, of the Hexrifle and Liquifier Gun, which would you pick?
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle or Liquifier Gun - which do you dislike the least?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 11:26

Ugh. Liquifier gun?

That being said, I think I would prefer almost any other upgrade.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle or Liquifier Gun - which do you dislike the least?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 11:35

The Hexrifle is, IMO, utterly terrible. Given that the ID effect is really only of use against IC's, who have a 2+ Look out, Sir! roll. Let's just look at a Hexrifle shot against a bog standard SM Captain in a unit of Tactical Marines:

Chance of wounding the Captain: 1/6 (to hit) x 1/2 (to wound) x 1/6 (LoS) x 1/3 (armour save)= 0.46%
Chance of ID on the Captain: 1/6 (to hit) x 1/6 (to wound) x 1/6 (LoS) x 1/2 (inv save)= 0.23%

Even assuming you target a normal marine: 4/6 (to hit) x 1/2 (to wound) x 1/3 (armour save)= 11.11%

The Liquifier is, if anything, even worse!

Save your points and buy something useful instead!

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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle or Liquifier Gun - which do you dislike the least?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 11:37

This is like asking me to choose between ebola and ISIS.
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Korwey
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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle or Liquifier Gun - which do you dislike the least?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 11:47

Liquifier was good in the previous dex, Hexrifle has interesting fluff and design. I'd chose the first one but only if I really have to. GW could do this right and make alternative ranged wracks :/
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle or Liquifier Gun - which do you dislike the least?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 12:07

I think I'd be more likely to take the hexrifle, but that's like asking me to pick a winner in a Nurgle beauty contest.

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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle or Liquifier Gun - which do you dislike the least?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 12:17

Liquifier. At least it could be useful on the charge, which is what, I assume, the rest of the unit will spend the game trying to do.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle or Liquifier Gun - which do you dislike the least?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 13:40

@Count Adhemar wrote:
The Hexrifle is, IMO, utterly terrible. Given that the ID effect is really only of use against IC's, who have a 2+ Look out, Sir! roll. Let's just look at a Hexrifle shot against a bog standard SM Captain in a unit of Tactical Marines:

Chance of wounding the Captain: 1/6 (to hit) x 1/2 (to wound) x 1/6 (LoS) x 1/3 (armour save)= 0.46%
Chance of ID on the Captain: 1/6 (to hit) x 1/6 (to wound) x 1/6 (LoS) x 1/2 (inv save)= 0.23%

Even assuming you target a normal marine: 4/6 (to hit) x 1/2 (to wound) x 1/3 (armour save)= 11.11%

Wouldn't it be better to aim for MCs with the Hexrifle - since they at least don't get LoS?

@Count Adhemar wrote:

The Liquifier is, if anything, even worse!

Save your points and buy something useful instead!

Never!

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
I think I'd be more likely to take the hexrifle, but that's like asking me to pick a winner in a Nurgle beauty contest.

Laughing

@sweetbacon wrote:
This is like asking me to choose between ebola and ISIS.  

lol!


Out of curiosity, would Stinger Pistols be a better investment - or am I just tunnelling through the bottom of the barrel?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle or Liquifier Gun - which do you dislike the least?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 13:51

@The Shredder wrote:
Wouldn't it be better to aim for MCs with the Hexrifle - since they at least don't get LoS?

Almost certainly but it's still a terrible weapon. Roughly 11% chance to ID an MC (less if in cover or it has an invulnerable) so it might do something useful every couple of games.


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ronin_cse
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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle or Liquifier Gun - which do you dislike the least?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 14:14

Soooo which would be the best choice of weapon then?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle or Liquifier Gun - which do you dislike the least?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 14:15

@ronin_cse wrote:
Soooo which would be the best choice of weapon then?


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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle or Liquifier Gun - which do you dislike the least?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 14:16

I like stinger pistols. I even gave one of my Haemonculi two, because you can do that.

Having played a couple games with a Dark Artisan, and watched it get repeatedly, futilely assaulted, I've decided to give that Haemonculus a liquifier. I don't think I'd take one under any other circumstances short of physical duress.

As for the hexrifle... it's a gun. It's got a good range, it's assault, it's an AP that's actually meaningful against Tau and other Eldar, and it's a shooting attack in a unit that doesn't have many of those. I've been playing with one in my Scalpel Squadron to see if it does anything, and it's killed a model or two here and there. I've never rolled one of the necessary 6s with it, and I don't think it's paid for itself and the Acothyst upgrade yet.

What exactly is this unit going to do? If you want them to assault stuff, for the cost of the liquifier I'd give the Acothyst a stinger pistol and venom blade, mostly because I find that combination immensely satisfying. If they're going to twiddle their thumbs on an objective somewhere, or ride around on a Raider and never disembark, and you've got the points to spare, I can see giving the Acothyst a hexrifle just so he's got something to do. It's not what I'd call "good" though.

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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle or Liquifier Gun - which do you dislike the least?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 16:32

Neither. Whack an ossefactor in there though. Those can be great fun.

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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle or Liquifier Gun - which do you dislike the least?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 16:49

@Panic_Puppet wrote:
Neither. Whack an ossefactor in there though. Those can be great fun.

Neither the Haemonculus nor the Acothyst has that option.

I would choose depending on the role you intend for that unit. A small squad in a transport that is all about shooting Ossefactors, you might as well put a Hex Rifle or two in there. A squad meant to hold objectives profits from Liquifiers, since those allow them to overwatch. A Liquifier gunboat can also work well against GEQ blobs or swarms.

@The Shredder wrote:
Out of curiosity, would Stinger Pistols be a better investment - or am I just tunnelling through the bottom of the barrel?

On an Acothyst; yes, if you don't have the points for either a Liquifier or a Hex Rifle, or if you don't want him to miss out on the extra attack from the pistol.
A close combat Haemonculus might as well just take the Parasite's Kiss, unless he has a different artifact already.
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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle or Liquifier Gun - which do you dislike the least?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 19:29

@Rokuro wrote:
@Panic_Puppet wrote:
Neither. Whack an ossefactor in there though. Those can be great fun.

Neither the Haemonculus nor the Acothyst has that option.


No, but there's nothing to stop a wrack in the unit taking it instead of putting it on a haemy or acothyst.

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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle or Liquifier Gun - which do you dislike the least?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 23:11

@Panic_Puppet wrote:
No, but there's nothing to stop a wrack in the unit taking it instead of putting it on a haemy or acothyst.

But every 5th Wrack can do that anyway. The question is what the Acothyst and Haemonculus can add to the unit in terms of ranged weapons, and the Ossefactor has nothing to do with them.
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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle or Liquifier Gun - which do you dislike the least?   Sat Mar 14 2015, 00:24

I'd go with hexrifle (I killed a hive crone with 1 so it is nice against monsters).
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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle or Liquifier Gun - which do you dislike the least?   Sat Mar 14 2015, 04:20

@Rokuro wrote:

A close combat Haemonculus might as well just take the Parasite's Kiss, unless he has a different artifact already.

Absolutely, unless he's a Coven supplement Haemonculus.

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