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 Voidraven Viable?

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KabaliteSon
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PostSubject: Voidraven Viable?   Thu Mar 12 2015, 17:35

So I know the general consensus is that the Voidraven is over cost. But I love the model, love the idea of it. And played them before Flyer rules existed and have an unhealthy attachment to make them work. I think as pure anti tank they are over priced so I was thinking of trying to run them like-

Voidraven w/Dark Scythes and 4x Implosion - 220

My thinking is using them as a anti elite infantry unit first. 2 Missiles + 2 Scythes each turn is 4 AP2 Small blast firing at least STR6. That can wreck a unit of Termis. Making your points back then follow up next turn with the same, and next turn do a bombing run with a Large Blast STR9 AP2 with d6 scatter. The biggest weakness here is Skyfire/Interceptor. That's why I think it needs support in the form of Ravages/Razorwing to focus/suppress any Skyfire units. I do think this will only really work at 1850-2k though.

Lemme know your thoughts.
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Viable?   Thu Mar 12 2015, 18:04

How many people run into interceptor/sky fire? Our meta hasn't had a large amount and I haven't seen anyone use either rule for about a year. Our tournaments focus more on beer then competition, but we have our share of good players.

That said, I have found success with the bomber, but I'm a middle of the pack general. The large blasts with shred seem to work well for me, especially against Dark Angels teleporting in termies turn one and Orks.

We play 1850+. The bomber does ok, but my army includes 4 raiders/2 venoms/2 ravagers. So I don't have an overload of anti-infantry. The bomber helps.
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perhow
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Viable?   Thu Mar 12 2015, 19:56

I haven't deployed mine yet but will be doing so in the near future. part of my plan is to fly him off the board for a second run late-game so it has to endure only one round of shooting And hopefully carry out some table-turning antics late on.
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@miral
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Viable?   Thu Mar 12 2015, 21:26

My Razorwing was downed by one wave serpent last game and also missile-sides and Flyrants can do the job. So while there is not much anti-air in my meta also, there is a lot of pseudo-anti-air. I would keep that in mind. But I would love to see the bomber work, I hope we can figure something out. My idea was three razorwings as support, alongside with reserve-manipulation to make sure the bomber arrives after the AA is gone/distracted.
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Viable?   Thu Mar 12 2015, 23:31

I prefer the shatter fields - cheaper and IMO more effective against a wider range of targets

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Bleaksoul Brethren
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Viable?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 05:07

Umm myrvn I go against tau or fortifications on a regular basis that makes our flyers cry when they come on.
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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Viable?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 06:16

I think if I took the thing, it would be with Dark Scythes and that's it. Have it as a dedicated ground role and call it a day. Blast is more accurate than just rolling to hit, and even though it doesn't have the opportunity to kill air, it can still kill the crap out of things on the ground.
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Viable?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 15:03

My problem with the Voidraven is that it is so overpriced that a Ravager can do the same for less costs.


If you badly want to get rid of enemy elite infantry, why don't you take a Disintegrator Ravager instead?
It comes at half the cost and will shred TEQs apart.


I guess the Dark Scythes could be worth it if you fight aginst multi wounded TEQs (such as the Grey Knights Paladin if I am not mistaken).
Otherwise, the 9 S5 AP2 shots from a Ravager will wound much more at half the Voidraven's cost.

Yes, the Ravager doesn't give you missiles and you don't get a void mine. But at the same cost you could field another Ravager, or Talos.


If the Voidraven would come pre-equipped with Shatterfield Missiles I think I could ignore its ridiculous AV and make use of it somehow.
Those 2 S9 lance shots are really tempting and I wouldn't mind paying a bit extra for them.

Man GW, why can't we just mount some Void Lances on Ravagers at 10 points a piece? xD
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Viable?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 16:32

@HERO wrote:
I think if I took the thing, it would be with Dark Scythes and that's it.  Have it as a dedicated ground role and call it a day.  Blast is more accurate than just rolling to hit, and even though it doesn't have the opportunity to kill air, it can still kill the crap out of things on the ground.

I was looking at it the other day, and came to pretty much the same conclusion. Maybe take the Shatterfields too, just to give it some more blast shots. It would probably be a lot of fun if you already had a couple of Razorwings as an anti-air option. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to have if you were a bit of a completionist, certainly. I know the standard complaint is that it can be brought down by boltgun fire, but you have to consider that A) It probably won't be (ten man tactical squad snap shooting in rapid-fire range get 3-4 hits and maybe one glance) and B) Shouldn't the Voidraven have just killed those boltguns? I think it could be a lot of fun, it's just a shame it's not more reasonably costed.

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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Viable?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 17:09

The way I see it, the Voidraven is not just a dedicated anti-tank flier, but one of the few DE units that can easily kill MEQs.

What people also tend not to realize is that not only will a Bolter hit a Void Raven only on a 6 and glance on another 6, but every unit firing their Bolters at it for that slim chance is one not firing at our far more vulnerable ground units!
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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Viable?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 17:35

@Rokuro wrote:
The way I see it, the Voidraven is not just a dedicated anti-tank flier, but one of the few DE units that can easily kill MEQs.

What people also tend not to realize is that not only will a Bolter hit a Void Raven only on a 6 and glance on another 6, but every unit firing their Bolters at it for that slim chance is one not firing at our far more vulnerable ground units!

I don't know about one of the few, I have 31 Dark Lances in my current army and they piss all over MEQ.

@Believer
I wouldn't worry about the AV10. Everything in the army is AV10 and it honestly shouldn't affect the way you play with the flier. When the Voidraven hits the board, you want to maximize the amount of damage it can possibly do, which can mean Supersonic 36" with the Void Mine AND fire off its blast lances at the same time at a good target. That would be ideal.
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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Viable?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 23:06

@HERO wrote:
I don't know about one of the few, I have 31 Dark Lances in my current army and they piss all over MEQ.

Dark Lances and Blasters are anti-tank weapons. Sure, they are effective against MEQs, but so are Melters and Lascannons.
We don't have many units that bring this kind of firepower in large enough quantities to really hurt MEQ units, as opposed to just MEQ models. After all, Darklight weapons tend to hit only one model each. Dark Scythes are the notable (yet more often overlooked) exception, and they are exclusive to the Voidraven.
Alternatives are Trueborn, Scourges and Raiders/Ravagers with Blasters or Disintegrators respectively.

Did you notice a theme here?
All of our potential anti-MEQ units are arguably better as anti-tank instead. Neutral
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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Viable?   Fri Mar 13 2015, 23:17

@Rokuro wrote:
@HERO wrote:
I don't know about one of the few, I have 31 Dark Lances in my current army and they piss all over MEQ.

Dark Lances and Blasters are anti-tank weapons. Sure, they are effective against MEQs, but so are Melters and Lascannons.
We don't have many units that bring this kind of firepower in large enough quantities to really hurt MEQ units, as opposed to just MEQ models. After all, Darklight weapons tend to hit only one model each. Dark Scythes are the notable (yet more often overlooked) exception, and they are exclusive to the Voidraven.
Alternatives are Trueborn, Scourges and Raiders/Ravagers with Blasters or Disintegrators respectively.

Did you notice a theme here?
All of our potential anti-MEQ units are arguably better as anti-tank instead. Neutral

Uhh.... S8 AP2 are not just anti-tank weapons.

I wrote a while ago..

Quote :
On the importance of Dark Lances vs. poison weapons..
Then I would argue he doesn't have enough anti-tank and an over saturation of poison.

S8 AP2 Lance is not just our answer for vehicles btw, it's the answer to everything in life, Terminators, Bikes, Riptides, Dreadknights, Wraithknights that are exposed, basically anything T4 multi-wound (Oblits, Broadsides, Nobz), the list goes on and on.

We have plenty of anti-infantry in our army, and while that can be a good thing, it can be misleading when designing your list. We have to maximize on our lances if we're to make a big impression on targets with 2+ AS because we don't have reliable melee solutions to those. Poison is good, but not enough to punch holes in what we really need to down in most cases. That's why you must have a healthy amount of lances in your army.

Which is another reason why I don't like Scourges with HWB. They do absolutely jack crap to a lot of the targets I listed above.
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