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 Codex Harlequins Review

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Sigmaril
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Wed Mar 11 2015, 20:30

For the MODs:

Isn't it time for the Harlequins to get their own thread in the "Mercenaries and Allies" section of the board?
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Mononcule
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Wed Mar 11 2015, 23:33

The_Burning_Eye wrote:
Yeah its specific to formations (so Dark Artisan, Grotesquerie etc) not detachments that don't specify the units you must take.

To use your example mononcule - as soon as you add an unbound death jester to the CAD, you lose objective secured. Take an unbound death jester with a dark artisan however and the dark artisan operates exactly the way it does in the book.

As such, if you're building a coven force using formations there's no reason not to add something like a death jester, provided whoever you're playing against is ok playing an unbound army.

Shocked

You are absolutely right, I just read it in the rulebook...

It means that I can build a list with scalpel squadrons, Dark Artisans, A grotesquerie, then balanced it with a few unbound ravagers and RWJF...
and then add any DE/Quins/Eldar IC to the grotesquerie?

So many cool options. I want my Sslyth gunboat with a Shadowseer in it Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Thu Mar 12 2015, 00:02

I've picked up th dex and some models, and I really see three ways of using it. With some other Eldar support for Ld Shenanigans, the Masque detachment might be fun in friendly games.

I run a Freakshow list, and I think that the Troupe of Players or Hero's Path formations might provide some additional Ld dependent effects, as well as some anti-elite/anti-vehicle support.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Fri Mar 13 2015, 07:23

I can see some potential for countering invisibility reliant units with caress equipped troupes. It doesn't get any better - on a 6 to hit (required anyway if the unit is invisible) you get an automatic wound with AP2.

If there was an option to equip the unit with embraces it would be even better.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Fri Mar 13 2015, 10:30

The unit can take embraces - but as with any HoW units, you'd need to get all of them into base to base to make it count.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Fri Mar 13 2015, 10:51

Finn wrote:
I can see some potential for countering invisibility reliant units with caress equipped troupes. It doesn't get any better - on a 6 to hit (required anyway if the unit is invisible) you get an automatic wound with AP2.

If you're running Eldar with the 'Quins it can get slightly better if you get a Farseer to cast Prescience on them. Say a unit of 6 with Caresses on the charge vs an Invisible unit (I'm really thinking Centurions here!): 24 attacks, 4 hits normally plus 3.33 from re-rolls = 7.33 AP2 wounds or just under 4 dead Cents!

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Fri Mar 13 2015, 11:11

So far I've read half of the fluff in the book but I have not liked it specially. Not that it is bad either. I like the art though. Or the real pictures, not those fast color schemes that every Mask have beside their short description.

The Last Laugh Warlord trait can lead to very suicidal Troupe Master Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Fri Mar 13 2015, 16:29

Count Adhemar wrote:
Finn wrote:
I can see some potential for countering invisibility reliant units with caress equipped troupes. It doesn't get any better - on a 6 to hit (required anyway if the unit is invisible) you get an automatic wound with AP2.

If you're running Eldar with the 'Quins it can get slightly better if you get a Farseer to cast Prescience on them. Say a unit of 6 with Caresses on the charge vs an Invisible unit (I'm really thinking Centurions here!): 24 attacks, 4 hits normally plus 3.33 from re-rolls = 7.33 AP2 wounds or just under 4 dead Cents!
Good point. But when I said it doesn't get any better, I meant that harlies with caresses are probably the most efficient anti-invisibility choice.

Even with a Farseer I feel that 6 clowns are not enough - with the 7.33 wounds you're basically killing Tigurius and then the cents beat you to a bloody pulp. To truly cripple such a unit, you need 10.
Caldria wrote:
The unit can take embraces - but as with any HoW units, you'd need to get all of them into base to base to make it count.
Agreed. But not caresses AND embraces.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Fri Mar 13 2015, 17:50

Quote :
Agreed. But not caresses AND embraces.
Am i missing something? Why not? It seems to me they can take both. Some models caresses, some models emraces.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Fri Mar 13 2015, 18:00

Because it makes no sense for invisible unit hunting purposes. You need caresses for that. If taking embraces on top of caresses was an option, I'd take it.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Fri Mar 13 2015, 18:06

Quote :
Because it makes no sense for invisible unit hunting purposes. You need caresses for that. If taking embraces on top of caresses was an option, I'd take it.

Ehmm...im missing you here. Embrace is D3 S6 autohits.
Caress is hit on 6. You likely do something with embrace, then caress. With caress, however you'd ignore armor. I dont see how caress is massively better then embrace against invis. However i dont like embraces much at all.

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Caldria
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Fri Mar 13 2015, 18:21

Yeah, agreed.

Caress only does anything special on a 6, which is what you need to hit an invisible unit - so you're aiming for 6's anyway - so you're essentially not letting invis affect what you're aiming for. But you're not avoiding the problems caused by invisibility which is that you will do 'nothing' at all unless you roll a 6 to hit. Whereas the embrace is d3 "auto hits" which is exactly the counter to invis, as you do not need to roll to hit for those.

So embraces (or more precisely, Hammer of Wrath) are the direct counter to invis.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Fri Mar 13 2015, 19:05

Let's do some basic math.

10 harlies with embraces. Let's assume they all get into base to base and survive overwatch. They're hitting invisible Centurions+Tigurius. 20 hits on average, 13,33 wounds, 2,22 unsaved wounds. VS MEQ it's 5,55 wounds. Presience doesn't do jack in case of HoW.

10 harlies with caresses. 40 attacks - 6,66 wounds AP2. 12,22 wounds AP2 with some psychic support. Apart from tearing up invisible units caress harlies slaughter MCs, too.

See?

To be fair, embraces fare much better against most vehicles.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Fri Mar 13 2015, 19:19

Well this has more to do with T5 Cent Star, then exactly invis. Simple Reavers are better then Harlies at assaulting Cent Star.

If it isnt T5 2+, well, Embrace would show better math.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Fri Mar 13 2015, 19:20

Azdrubael, I'm sorry, but no.
Finn wrote:
Let's do some basic math.

10 harlies with embraces. (...) VS MEQ it's 5,55 wounds. Presience doesn't do jack in case of HoW.

10 harlies with caresses. 40 attacks - 6,66 wounds AP2. 12,22 wounds AP2 with some psychic support. Apart from tearing up invisible units caress harlies slaughter MCs, too.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Fri Mar 13 2015, 19:20

Fair enough, the problem is that most invis stars also have 3++ characters tanking those ap2 wounds for them - and have the warp charge dice to fairly easily deny your prescience, so highly likely you won't get those rerolls.

Also, the caress wounds can be put onto multiple wound 3++ characters, whereas the HoW hits from the embraces hit the models you get into base to base with as far as I'm aware, so you can attack and get into base to base with the centurions, forcing those hits on them.

But, granted - that math did surprise me, I didn't expect the caresses to go so high.

Another thing though is that a 10 man unit all with caresses is insanely expensive for t3 5++ models. 250 points, and that's without the shadowseer and farseer costs added into it.


Last edited by Caldria on Fri Mar 13 2015, 19:27; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Fri Mar 13 2015, 19:26

Quote :
Azdrubael, I'm sorry, but no.
Okay, fair point. Is it even wise to assault cent star then?

Quote :
But, granted - that math did surprise me, I didn't expect the caresses to go so high.
Yeah , me too. Its probably because caress ignore 2 rolls alltogether, to wound and armor save.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Fri Mar 13 2015, 19:32

Azdrubael wrote:
Okay, fair point. Is it even wise to assault cent star then?
Yes, it is Smile Provided you can either hit first and deal some serious damage or tarpit them reliably. The same applies to invisible thunderwolf cav Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Fri Mar 13 2015, 19:48

A lot of points for such a fragile unit, but to each their own.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Fri Mar 13 2015, 19:58

HERO - when your meta is full of invisible star units, it is worth it. In a different meta they would be waaaay overcosted, I admit it.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Fri Mar 13 2015, 20:26

Finn wrote:
HERO - when your meta is full of invisible star units, it is worth it. In a different meta they would be waaaay overcosted, I admit it.

Find a better meta bro. My beard doesn't grow long enough these days to care for such things!

Do you plan on giving them a Raider with Night Shield too? Something to get them in there right? Maybe even Aethersails to chase.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Sat Mar 14 2015, 09:45

HERO wrote:
Finn wrote:
HERO - when your meta is full of invisible star units, it is worth it. In a different meta they would be waaaay overcosted, I admit it.

Find a better meta bro.  My beard doesn't grow long enough these days to care for such things!

Do you plan on giving them a Raider with Night Shield too?  Something to get them in there right?  Maybe even Aethersails to chase.
The thing with invisible deathstars is they are meant to be used very aggresively and people using them try to get to you ASAP. Centistar comes in a droppod. A quin raider is not really necessary because of that, but given the unit's cost, I personally would provide them with a transport to ensure they do what I paid for.

My local meta is skewed due to abundance of top ETC players we have here. They dominate the tournament scene so much that even fluff bunnies grow a stubble while attending events. Nobody likes to spend the whole day being a punchbag. This mindset transfers to smaller events and store leagues, too, as they are looked at as practice for master tournaments.

Therefore I don't have a way to find a different meta if I want to attend a tournament even from time to time. My only other choice is to only play casually with my closest gaming buddies.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Sat Mar 14 2015, 17:56

Even so, I would still probably buy them a 70 point Raider with Night Shield, just in case.

At least you know with the Raider, you can squeeze out extra assault space since we have such pointy hulls. Turn side ways, point towards, jump out 2", that gives you almost 6" of extra movement.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Sun Mar 15 2015, 01:37

The turn thing is debatable as legal... And it's a 6" disembark

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Sun Mar 15 2015, 07:22

Yeah pretty sure pivot for extra movement doesn't work this edition.

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