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 Codex Harlequins Review

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Sun Mar 15 2015, 10:38

According to what rules?
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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Mon Mar 16 2015, 06:29

Pivoting your Raider and measuring from the hull for 2" disembarkment is perfectly legal.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Mon Mar 16 2015, 06:57

You don't disembark 2" anymore. Since 6th you disembark 6" and it counts as that units move.

As for the pivot, its debatable because it specifically states it can't be used to move further than intended unlike previous editions. Hence why not all events allow you to pivot for extra movement. Of course this is classic GW rules so can be swung either way. That's what @Massaen was getting at.

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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Mon Mar 16 2015, 07:22

I was referring to the hull Mush.. the 2" from the hull.

Like the physical pointiness of the Raider's nose adds 2".

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Mon Mar 16 2015, 08:22

Ahh my bad. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Mon Mar 16 2015, 14:34

@Mushkilla wrote:
As for the pivot, its debatable because it specifically states it can't be used to move further than intended.
Unless, I'm missing something, it doesn't actually state that. What it says is that pivoting doesn't count as moving (and that a vehicle may pivot as many times as it likes) which, if anything, makes it even more legal.

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Mon Mar 16 2015, 18:45

So more on topic, I was looking over the phantasmancy powers and it occurs to me that peal of discord might be better than I previously thought. Sure its short range but against a 10 man MEQ you will average I think 7.7 or so wounds. This math was off the top of my head while driving so correct me if I'm wrong.

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ronin_cse
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Mon Mar 16 2015, 19:10

I think the review is pretty spot on. I don't really see how anyone could look at all the options in the Codex and say, in regards to being competitive, that it adds anything to either Eldar codex, or that as a standalone force it does anything better. It just simply does not with the current restrictions. It we could just take a basic allied force that would be different, but we simply can't.

I am saying this as a not very competitive player. I do play some local tournaments but the meta isn't that crazy and even with lists that aren't cheesy I still generally place high. I would be perfectly fine taking an assault unit or two to one of these for the fun of it. If I were going to a big tournament like the LVO I would never take an assault focused unit as it would not, except in a few rare cases, be as effective as a shooting unit for the same points. Since the main unit for the Harlequins is obviously assault focused they just simply aren't as effective in most games.

That being said I will be getting enough Harlequins to run a Masque with each IC when I can just because they look like a lot of fun to play. I can't wait to try out the Scytheguard, Archon, Spirit Seer, and Shadow Seer in a Waveserpent bomb because it would be massively fun to do (maybe even with a Deep Struck Dark Artisan nearby for the hell of it), but it probably wouldn't be very competitive (mostly due to the restrictions for bringing the Shadow Seer).

@The Red King wrote:
So more on topic, I was looking over the phantasmancy powers and it occurs to me that peal of discord might be better than I previously thought. Sure its short range but against a 10 man MEQ you will average I think 7.7 or so wounds. This math was off the top of my head while driving so correct me if I'm wrong.

What I can't wait to try out is a Shadowseer with the Mask and the Mirror power and an Archon with the Armor of Misery in a Coven unit from a formation with Freakish spectacle (I think that's the right rule). -5 to LD means the Mirror of Minds power simply kills what ever unit you cast it against. The only way to stop the power is when the unit is gone, or if your opponent BEATS your roll + ld. 5 ld can never get above 11 so they can never beat your roll (since you still win ties), and even if they have an invul. save it doesn't say anything about that stopping the power.

Edit: Damn I read the entry for the power closer and it's a focused witchfire power that targets a model. I would still be fun as hell but wouldn't be quite as effective as I thought Sad.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Mon Mar 16 2015, 21:12

I think they are a useful supplement to either codex. Certainly not an I-Win button, but they can be applied usefully. (40k isn't WoW, after all. There's more than one way to write a winning list.)

I think especially if you have a stale meta, where everyone has seen everything you can do, the Harlequin's offer a new supplementary option to keep your opponents guessing, without having to start a brand new army.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Mon Mar 16 2015, 22:25

@ronin, don't discount the power though, you can use it to drop riptides or other scary monstrous creatures.
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ronin_cse
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Mon Mar 16 2015, 22:51

@Dirtydeeds wrote:
@ronin, don't discount the power though, you can use it to drop riptides or other scary monstrous creatures.

Oh yeah I won't. It's awesome against any single model really as it WILL kill them. They couldn't even look out sir it because it keeps going until the target model is dead.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Mon Mar 16 2015, 22:54

To my knowledge you can't look out sir a focused witchfire. Look out sir is done during wound allocation. You don't allocate wounds from a focused witch fire. No allocation step, no LoS.

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ronin_cse
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Mon Mar 16 2015, 23:00

@The Red King wrote:
To my knowledge you can't look out sir a focused witchfire. Look out sir is done during wound allocation. You don't allocate wounds from a focused witch fire. No allocation step,  no LoS.

I dunno I think you still allocate wounds, you are just allocating them against a specific model. Although looking at the BRB and comparing it to precision shot it does specifically say you allocate the wound against a specific model and that the model can still take a LoS and doesn't say either of those under the Focused Witchfire.

I'm pretty sure this is stirring up the hornet's nest though as I have seen this debated before. Regardless it wouldn't affect this power since a LoS wouldn't stop the model from being killed.
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Black Death
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Thu Mar 19 2015, 03:55

Not trying to derail your talk going on. I have this crazy question about the whole use of the harli dex. If you use the main building structure, is it bound? If you use one detachment as primary and another one with it is it still bound? If you just make your own from the book, is it bound or unbound? Sorry this seems dumb, but I'm having a hell of a time figuring it out. Thanks

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Thu Mar 19 2015, 04:01

as long as every unit is part of a detachment or formation and the requirements of those detachments and formations are met then the list is battle forged (or bound if you like)

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Cavalier
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Harlequins Review   Thu Mar 19 2015, 10:54

I like the codex. I agree that as a stand-alone army, in random pick-up games it will be very difficult to play. In higher points games, themed apocalypse games, and campaigns they could be very excellent. I plan on bulking up my army for apocalypse with a number of Starweavers bikes and counts-as troupes all with Shadowseers.

Yet for pick-up games I do see a niche for them. I think the formation with the lone squad with a SS and a DJ could be an excellent addition to any force and I plan on trying it as my store has recently been seen a big up-tick in the number of players rocking bikes and thunderwolf cav. Harlies are perfect for going after these guys as they have the speed to get there and Veil of Tears to protect them from long range fire. Also I think the wargear options with all the instant death attacks could be very scary against any kind of monstrous creature themed armies. Sure they wont be great against Skyblight and triple winged-tyrants but they'd be great against the ground-pounders.

As with all things across the 3 Eldar dexes (man does it make me happy to say 3 Eldar codices:D ) if the rest of your army is strong enough and streamlined there is always room for a specialist unit or 2 that may not carry your army, but could provide it with a critical tool to allow the rest of your army to focus on its preffered targets. I know for my meched up Eldar/Dark Eldar lists speedy assault units have been a problem, forcing me to do a lot of turbo-boosting to avoid assault. The harlies give me a great unit to go out and meet that threat in CC.

They aren't game changers but I think they fill a niche in my take all comers list.

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