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 BR2: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Serpent Spam - 1250pts

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: BR2: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Serpent Spam - 1250pts   Fri Mar 06 2015, 13:41

@Mushkilla wrote:
@The Shredder wrote:
I have to say, I'm slightly surprised that you consider the Haemonculus a tax with Dark Artisan. Neutral

Well you are paying 70 points for I5 which you won’t get to use when charging through cover. You also sacrifice a considerable chunk of damage output both at range and in melee for survivability (cronos). So it all hinges on wanting to field a cronos.

Well, not just I5. He also gives them Zealot on turn 4, lets them reroll 1s on their 4+ FNP rolls, and can add utility with a WWP, Vexator Mask or somesuch. I've also found Scissorhand Harmonculi to be pretty decent in combat. Not amazing, but decent. In addition, as the only model in the unit with IWND, he can also tank some wounds for them and (hopefully) regenerate them as the game goes on.

But, maybe it's because I see DA as a Warlord-bunker. So, I look at the other two as bodyguards, rather than looking at the Haemonculus as an unwanted addition. Also, I always bring them in via WWP - so the Haemonculus is pretty integral to their mobility in that regard.


Out of curiosity, Mush, did you ever consider starting one of the Grotesque units on the field (in place of Talos), and then bringing in the other and DA with WWPs? Or, is it just much more useful to have both Grotesque squads arrive via Deep Strike?
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: BR2: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Serpent Spam - 1250pts   Fri Mar 06 2015, 18:29

@The Shredder wrote:
But, maybe it's because I see DA as a Warlord-bunker. So, I look at the other two as bodyguards, rather than looking at the Haemonculus as an unwanted addition. Also, I always bring them in via WWP - so the Haemonculus is pretty integral to their mobility in that regard.

Yeah I don’t think it’s a bad formation. However, in the context of my list, the Talos/DA form my early game anchor, whilst the rest of army waits in reserve. So in that regard they potentially take a lot more shooting and as a result are not the safest place for my warlord to be. As opposed to the grotesque units which are on the table at the earliest turn 2 (so if i’m going second they potentially take two turns less of shooting). My anchor units also need to project some threat (why splinter cannons are ideal), as it means they can still contribute even if they are focusing on holding/guarding objectives and makes them harder to ignore.

I feel getting an additional unit is a big jump in an army that only had three units. I haven’t added a weak link in terms of easy units to destroy either as all four units are very resilient. The extra unit can be used to force my opponent to split up and spread thin, which potentially might create more opportunities/mistakes for my grotesques to capitalise on.

I also decided to follow your advice regarding aberrations. My haemonculus doesn’t have any weapons so he doesn’t mind refusing challenges all day (very fluffy, considering any mortal challenger would be beneath him).

@The Shredder wrote:
Out of curiosity, Mush, did you ever consider starting one of the Grotesque units on the field (in place of Talos), and then bringing in the other and DA with WWPs? Or, is it just much more useful to have both Grotesque squads arrive via Deep Strike?

The grotesque units have a lot more reach, and can take up a lot of space with an average run roll.

Example 1:



Dark Artisan after deep-striking and running 3" (the blue bubbles show 12" reasonably reliable threat range).

Example 2:



Eight grotesques and a haemonculus after deep-striking and running 3” (the blue bubbles show 12" reasonably reliable threat range).

Example 3:



Eight grotesques and a haemonculus after deep-striking and running 6” (the blue bubbles show 12" reasonably reliable threat range).

This makes them ideal for multi-charges, blocking enemy movement, contesting objectives on the turn they land and it makes them a lot harder to avoid.

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Fraust
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PostSubject: Re: BR2: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Serpent Spam - 1250pts   Fri Mar 06 2015, 21:44

Mush...would the haemy's init still be 5 for sweeping advances after going through terrain? Not sure how that works out and I'm away from my books for the weekend.

Also, one thing with the cronos' bubble. Bunching up certainly can be bad, but it's not a mistake you're forced to make. Having the option of pulling a group hug to weather a particularly rough turn coming up might be of some value. For the most part I see what you're saying though.

For me personally the DA, specifically the cronos, is something of a linchpin unit...but that's because of the corpsethief. Having 4+ FnP and rr 1s on my biggest toughest unit is just too good to pass up. Least, that's the theory Wink
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: BR2: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Serpent Spam - 1250pts   Sat Mar 07 2015, 01:14

@Fraust wrote:
Mush...would the haemy's init still be 5 for sweeping advances after going through terrain?

Sorry for jumping in with an answer, but yes it still counts as 5 - terrain only affects the order of close combat attacks, not sweeping advances

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: BR2: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Serpent Spam - 1250pts   Sat Mar 07 2015, 08:30

@Fraust wrote:
For me personally the DA, specifically the cronos, is something of a linchpin unit...but that's because of the corpsethief. Having 4+ FnP and rr 1s on my biggest toughest unit is just too good to pass up. Least, that's the theory Wink

I totally agree with that, it makes the corpsethief even more ridiculous! I also wouldn't advocate WWP with that as the corpsethief can only scout 6" so the cronos can still keep up by starting on your deployment zone edge. Smile

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solar shock
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PostSubject: Re: BR2: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Serpent Spam - 1250pts   Sat Mar 07 2015, 10:46

mush i'd advocate if you can playing the GKs the same way red did, starting on table if you can and make him come to you while you rack up VPs via the 4 objectives. Wait for a unit to lose hammer/force and pounce. But that depends on whether you get the chance to setup like that.

I dont know GKs very well, is he simply going to be gating the 10 termie squads around? or DSing them near you? his list bar the NDK is slow, you have some great resilience and perhaps, holding only 1 grot unit in reserves could be useful, then to some extent if he commits overly one direction then you can DS behind him, either forcing him to come backwards away from the diamond objectives or you will be getting a charge off next turn.

I was thinking throwing speed bumps at him could be useful, but you dont really have any speedbumps with only 3 units Razz
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