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 Reaver loadout?

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SweaterKittens
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PostSubject: Reaver loadout?   Thu Feb 26 2015, 11:30

Since Reavers are so damn expensive, I've been running just a single squad of 3 for the last month. I started with just Cluster Caltrops, but after a few games and shuffling some points around, I started running a Blaster as well. I've got to say, I'm loving it. I have a soft spot for lances, and Reavers have the move speed as well as the Eldar Jetbike move to easily get within range. I don't think I've used it on vehicles once, but it is almost a guaranteed kill, and ID's marines (which are very popular in my meta).

In any case, after an eBay deal and using the gift card I won at this month's league, I'll have 9 Reavers, and I'm hoping to get more soon. Since I'm hoping my force will feature them more often and in greater numbers, I'm interested to see what people like fielding. I'd really like to field them with an Arena Champion w/ Power Sword at some point, but I'm interested to see what other people have luck with. So far they've performed better out of CC, as they can easily get within range, pop off 2-4 splinter shots and a S8 AP2 round, then bug out with the Eldar Jetbike move. When they get into CC, they don't hit real hard after the first round, and if they win, they only get their measly consolidation move which lets them get chewed up the very next round. I like Heat lances, but I'm running Lance Spam and I don't think I need the extra AT (especially because my FLGS is only playing at 750 pts currently). Let me hear your thoughts!
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver loadout?   Thu Feb 26 2015, 11:41

I generally run a squad of 9 with 3x Cluster Caltrops and an Arean Champion (purely for Ld) if I have spare points. I don't give them ranged weapons because they're almost always jinking.

I'd probably prefer 2 squads of 6, but I lack both the models and the FA slots. Razz

When they don't perform well, it's generally because I'm a crap commander. Unfortunately, I have a bad habit of underestimating charge ranges - which has led to them getting charged and wiped out.

I think their best game was against Chaos, when I started off by using them to screen my vehicles. They first absorbed a ton of plasma fire with just a couple of casualties, then killed a Maulerfiend with their Cluster Caltrops (which could otherwise have locked down and killed my valuable Grotesqes), and then absorbed even more fire next turn. I believe the 3 CC Reavers were left and fled, though regrouped in my turn. But, the Chaos player surrendered after that for grotesque-related reasons.
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thenick18
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver loadout?   Thu Feb 26 2015, 11:53

Squad if 9 as well with caltrops. I tend to move up one of the flanks with them while my opponent focuses on my transports, then when the timing works out, I start hitting his tanks with caltrops, 3x d6 str 6 and 6x d3 str4 rending will make quick work of rear armor. I also field 9, just for the extra wounds in case my opponent is smart and targets them. But for me, and for the points, its either caltrops or blasters not both and I tend to take caltrops. Caltrops will hands down do more damage than a blaster over the course of a match for the same points.
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver loadout?   Thu Feb 26 2015, 12:47

i take 6 with blasters and caltrops. Mainly because that's how I built them ages back, but also because I've found when i over extend them they tend to get wiped out, so i keep them back with the rest of my army, using the blaster in the first couple of turns before striking with the caltrops later on.

I have a related question - does anyone know offhand when the bonus for furious charge is calculated? I'm thinking with regard to the father of pain rule and the bubble it projects. I'm assuming that the reavers would need to be in the bubble when the charge is declared to benefit from it, (at least that seems the reasonable conclusion to reach) rather than simply having to end the charge within the bubble.

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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver loadout?   Thu Feb 26 2015, 12:49

I find them to be completely terrible. I can only assume people who like them, never play people with ignore cover weapons. I regularly play against Tau and Eldar. Tau don't even need line of sight to kill them at 30" (I get my FNP saves !! "yay"). Even Marines in my meta use ignore cover weapons/chars.

If I use them at all, it's in a single 3 man squad with Caltrops and a Blaster. Distraction unit/end of game tidyup/fast scoring.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver loadout?   Thu Feb 26 2015, 13:01

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
I have a related question - does anyone know offhand when the bonus for furious charge is calculated? I'm thinking with regard to the father of pain rule and the bubble it projects. I'm assuming that the reavers would need to be in the bubble when the charge is declared to benefit from it, (at least that seems the reasonable conclusion to reach) rather than simply having to end the charge within the bubble.

That's an interesting question, but I'm afraid I have no idea as to the answer.

@Hellstrom wrote:
I find them to be completely terrible.  I can only assume people who like them, never play people with ignore cover weapons.  I regularly play against Tau and Eldar.  Tau don't even need line of sight to kill them at 30" (I get my FNP saves !! "yay").  Even Marines in my meta use ignore cover weapons/chars.

My first game with the new codex was a game against GKs. A DK teleported up the board and wiped out the entire squad on turn 1. Because, as we all know, DKs are just sooo much fun. Rolling Eyes

Anyway, since then I've generally only seen that kind of mobile, Ignores Cover weapon in games when I wasn't using Reavers. So, it might just be blind luck on my part.

Though, in all honesty, most Tau and Eldar lists seem like bad matchups to begin with. If we eschew Reavers, then those Ignore Cover weapons can just target our vehicles instead.
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Lord Mal
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver loadout?   Thu Feb 26 2015, 15:23

Well, all I read when the book came out was how great they were. I'm hearing a lot of mixed reports from this thread though.

A couple people said take a unit of 9 (that's a lot). One person said 6, one says they hate them.

After reading the thread about their potential for screening, does anyone think that having 3 cheap units of 3 with caltrops might be the way to go, especially in a Real Space Raider Detachment (Since you have extra FA?). You could even drop the Caltrops if you just want them for screening, blocking disembarking units, picking off almost dead things, or generally being a pain.
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver loadout?   Thu Feb 26 2015, 16:31

@Lord Mal wrote:
Well, all I read when the book came out was how great they were.  I'm hearing a lot of mixed reports from this thread though.  

A couple people said take a unit of 9 (that's a lot).  One person said 6, one says they hate them.

After reading the thread about their potential for screening, does anyone think that having 3 cheap units of 3 with caltrops might be the way to go, especially in a Real Space Raider Detachment (Since you have extra FA?).  You could even drop the Caltrops if you just want them for screening, blocking disembarking units, picking off almost dead things, or generally being a pain.

I think the thing to take away from this thread really is that (as always) reavers are meta-dependent, if you face a lot of ignores cover then they may die quite quickly, but apart from that they're a very useful unit that is functional (even good/great) in pretty much any configuration they can be built to. Realistically if you've got points left over, fit in reavers, they're not likely to let you down!

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver loadout?   Thu Feb 26 2015, 16:35

@Lord Mal wrote:
After reading the thread about their potential for screening, does anyone think that having 3 cheap units of 3 with caltrops might be the way to go, especially in a Real Space Raider Detachment (Since you have extra FA?).  You could even drop the Caltrops if you just want them for screening, blocking disembarking units, picking off almost dead things, or generally being a pain.

I guess that's ok if you're already set on using Realspace Raiders.

Personally, I think that detachment is absolutely abysmal. It's like being given the choice between a normal car, and a car with a larger boot that's also been dipped in raw sewage.

So, the reason I use 9 Reavers in a single squad is that I'm always using a CAD and generally have 2 other FA choices to fit in. Razz
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Lord Mal
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver loadout?   Thu Feb 26 2015, 20:02

Well, at least to me you just hit the nail on the head of why you'd use that detachment, which would be more FA so you don't have to cram 9 into one unit lol. But the 9 unit makes sense since most people are probably running the CAD.

And your saying I get a free boot! Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver loadout?   Sat Feb 28 2015, 18:11

Yeah, I'm definitely getting the idea that they're meta-dependent. I don't have much of anyone using ignores cover stuff here (there's one Tau player who only comes out once a month), and I almost never have to jink with them anyway as I always stick to LOS-blocking cover, and use my Eldar Jetbike move to get back into cover after shooting. My little squad of 3 with Caltrops and Blaster has always performed well, and has only gotten shot to hell after boosting to grab an objective, or after an assault ends and they're left with a measly consolidate move.

It sounds like people still prefer small squads, the main issue being FA slots. Since I plan on taking a Razorwing and Scourge too.... that doesn't leave a whole lot without taking Realspace Raiders. Which then of course leaves you without Obsec, which seems huge to me. That one's going to need some thought.

But aside from that, it sounds like people are having the best luck with a unit dedicated one way or the other - rather than fully kitted out. Either a harassing-screening unit with Caltrops, or a Hunting unit with Blasters. I think I'd have the best luck with Blasters in a small, 3-6 man unit, since they'd be easy to hide in cover and use the elder jetbike move to get out of the line of fire, where as a Larger, 6-9 man squad with Caltrops might be better to use their wounds and larger footprint to screen for other units.
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doriii
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver loadout?   Sat Feb 28 2015, 20:36

ignores cover just kills them, i regularly play against ig batteries that put like 50 wounds ignores cover on all squads, heldrake outright one shots a whole squad, tau ... and so on
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Mononcule
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver loadout?   Sat Feb 28 2015, 21:54

I use 3 reavers with caltrops only. Cheap, expendable, mobile, can threaten infantry and armor alike, good to grab objectives and to soak overwatch... I use terrain to hide them the first turns because I find them better at the later turns (usually less firepower on the board and bonus from pfp). T4 3+ cover 5+ fnp isnt bad to soak overwatch, unless there's a flamer.

I tried units of 6 and 9 with both caltrops and weapons and I find them less useful because then they are not expendable anymore and harder to hide. Add an arena champ and it's even worse.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver loadout?   Sat Feb 28 2015, 22:50

Take them as MSU of 3 with Caltrop only for 63pts a couple units is worth it, You can zoom around taking objectives for charge a side/read like vehicles.

I have had many success with them. And if they get shot at and die at least a Venom/Raider/Ravager didnt get shot at.

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Samuel44
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver loadout?   Sun Mar 01 2015, 11:36

I agree, MSU unit of 3 with caltrops. Not too expensive so i don't mind if it gets shot but really handy at the end of game and for objective grabbing.
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Panic_Puppet
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver loadout?   Sun Mar 01 2015, 12:59

I've only used them as a unit of 6 with 2x caltrops 2x heat lance this codex, because that's what they're modelled with. They're not terrible. Hit reasonably hard, and with 3+ cover (and if your opponent does have ignores cover, they're usually able to live with LOS blocking or just being out of range).

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PostSubject: Re: Reaver loadout?   Sun Mar 01 2015, 18:18

If taking special guns and caltrops, would you put both on the same models or give one trio the guns and another the caltrops? Thinking it would be best to have the other six protecting three tooled-up guys, but not sure.

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PostSubject: Re: Reaver loadout?   Sun Mar 01 2015, 18:42

I started off running 1-2 units of 6 with 2 heatlances and 2 caltrops. As people have pointed out, if the reavers go for the "kill" in combat they will likely not often get to actually shoot those heatlances (in my experiences) as they would have to jink. So just having caltrops seemed to be the right option.

But I've recently run 3 units of reavers, 1 unit of 6 with just 2 caltrops to go for the close combat kill.

then 2 units of 3 with a blaster. The blaster's range is good enough to allow these small reaver units to dart in and out of cover and take a blaster shot here and there. Otherwise I use them as my maelstrom objective takers - 3 are easy to hide and if the enemy decides to expend any shooting to get rid of them, well they'd overkill the unit - and losing a single 3 man reaver unit is hardly a hit to the list.

regarding putting guns and caltrops on the same guys - I wouldn't do that, barrage is the main enemy of reavers (especially a wyvern, which I face often) and they can just take out that model by barrage sniping it, then you lose both the caltrops and the gun.

In a unit of 6, I have 2 normal to die first, then the 2 guns, leaving the caltrops for last.
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