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Fraust
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Fri Mar 06 2015, 17:11

Can you break down how you get to -7 a little more? I'm seeing -2 for the mask, -2 for the armor, and -1 for the grotesquerie...what am I missing?
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Its_Rumble
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Fri Mar 06 2015, 17:20

I believe he is also taking into account the -2 from a deathjester's wounding hit.

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Dirtydeeds
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Fri Mar 06 2015, 17:58

Actually I was incorrect in my original post, it's supposed to be -5. I'll change it.
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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Fri Mar 06 2015, 21:50

http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2015/03/codex-review-harlequins.html

This pretty much sums up the Codex for me.

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Fraust
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Fri Mar 06 2015, 21:53

Damn...was hoping you'd found something I glossed over Smile The idea of psychic shrieking a unit of wraiths at -7 ld had me excited. Not that -5 isn't damn good for a penalty though Wink
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Sigmaril
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Fri Mar 06 2015, 23:47

@HERO wrote:
http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2015/03/codex-review-harlequins.html

This pretty much sums up the Codex for me.
What's your reasoning for buying 3 dedicated transports, for your troops, and then add 2 empty ones? Why not just one dedicated transport, and put the two remaining troops in the Fast Attack ones?
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Caldria
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Fri Mar 06 2015, 23:54

Well, I'm assuming he's doing it for the same reason we might by 5 warriors in a venom and then buying further venoms in the fast attack slot - just to get more venoms really. In this case I'm assuming he just wants to get more Starweavers.

The starweavers are pretty awesome - average the same wounds as a venom against GEQ and MEQ, with the potential for ap2, and have 1 extra transport slot (not really applicable in this example ofc) and can actually hurt light vehicles, unlike venoms. Oh and come with a once per game 4+ inv. It's like a slightly improved venom for +5 points. Though against MCs, venoms still outperform. <--- I feel like I've been listing the starweaver's benefits a lot lately xD
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Sat Mar 07 2015, 01:09

@Sigmaril wrote:
@HERO wrote:
http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2015/03/codex-review-harlequins.html

This pretty much sums up the Codex for me.
What's your reasoning for buying 3 dedicated transports, for your troops, and then add 2 empty ones? Why not just one dedicated transport, and put the two remaining troops in the Fast Attack ones?

Because 70 points for a Venom that shoots 6 S6 shots is actually good?

If I was to run the army with DE, it would look something like this..

Quote :
1840

RSR Detachment*
HQ:
Llama = 10

TROOP:
5x Warriors, Blaster, Raider, Lance = 115
5x Warriors, Blaster, Raider, Lance = 115
5x Warriors, Blaster, Raider, Lance = 115
5x Warriors, Blaster, Raider, Lance = 115

FAST:
Razorwing, Lances = 140
Razorwing, Lances = 140

HEAVY:
Ravager, Lances = 125
Ravager, Lances = 125
Ravager, Lances = 125

Masque Detachment*
TROOP:
5x Troupe, Starweaver = 165
5x Troupe, Starweaver = 165
5x Troupe, Starweaver = 165

FAST:
Starweaver = 70
Starweaver = 70

HEAVY:
Voidreaver, Prismatic = 80

Start the game with.. 13 lances at 36-48" threat, 33 S6 shots at 24-36" threat, and potentially +8 more lances when the Razors/Blasters are in range.  That's a lot of high-powered shooting.  Of course, you can always switch out the Raiders for Venoms because the points work pretty well.

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Dirtydeeds
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Sat Mar 07 2015, 03:57

So an interesting strategy using my -5 Leadership bubble with Shadowseers appeared to me today. As I was overlooking the powers, one caught my eye...

Quote :
Mirror of Minds, Warp Charge 2
Mirror of Minds is a Focussed Witchfire power with a range of 24". The target model and the Shadowseer both roll a D6 and add their respective Leadership values to the result. If the scores are drawn, or if the Shadowseer's score is higher, the target suffers a single wound with no armor or covers saves allowed. Repeat this process until either the target model is lain or the target model rolls a higher score than the Shadowseer.

Dropping a Leadership 10 model to 5 will NEVER beat a Shadowseer in this power. The highest they can roll is an 11, and the lowest a Shadowseer can ever roll is an 11. So no matter what, you garauntee a kill on that target. As long as you get everything in place.
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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Sat Mar 07 2015, 05:39

Your list is nice Hero but if you are using RSR detachment you can add venoms to your fast attack a venom for your HQ and really have no need for the harlies at all. And you pay no tax in troops. So I just don't see harlies being worth it. Your list can be a standard CAD for ObSec btw not a RSR unless you want it so and then harlies become somewhat more useful. Even without RSR you could fit in two venoms (one in fast attack - one for HQ) and have points left over to drop a squad of warriors for grots in a raider. Food for thought.

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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Sat Mar 07 2015, 05:48

Right, but the point is to make a list with Harlequins. :S

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Sat Mar 07 2015, 07:34

Im thinking of Players cast, as a deathstar. And i reconsidered Raider option.

Archon Shadow Field Armor of Torture WWP Ago, PGL

Harlies, 7 man, 3 melta pistols
Seer - Mask of -2 LD, level 2
Jester

Raider - Night Shield

Deepstrike and Fire Melta Pistols from Raiders hull. Thats for vehicles.

For normal targets - appear and force leadership checks with -6 modifier, if succesfull, drive them towards raider. Generally it must cause snapshots from fleeing targets and keep them in bouble to not allow regroup. Also i dont want target to run away from glorious assault.

It negates overwatch of many units as well. Stubborn units are protected, so thats DA and Platoons.

Archon will be insurance with a 2++. He dies first probably.

Shadowseer and archon will drop those phanatasm grenades and those who can be damaged by this will be damaged.

I still dont know how to do one thing - how to not wipe target during first turn of assault. I really want this speed bump from hit and run.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Sat Mar 07 2015, 08:22

@Caldria wrote:
The starweavers are pretty awesome - average the same wounds as a venom against GEQ and MEQ, with the potential for ap2, and have 1 extra transport slot (not really applicable in this example ofc) and can actually hurt light vehicles, unlike venoms. Oh and come with a once per game 4+ inv. It's like a slightly improved venom for +5 points. Though against MCs, venoms still outperform. <--- I feel like I've been listing the starweaver's benefits a lot lately xD

The big thing people seem to be missing though is it's weapons are 24" range, this can expose you to considerably more fire than being at 36" range. Especially now that you can only remove models within the weapons maximum range meaning you often have to get closer than 24" to fire at full effectiveness.

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Caldria
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Sat Mar 07 2015, 11:02

@Mushkilla wrote:
The big thing people seem to be missing though is it's weapons are 24" range, this can expose you to considerably more fire than being at 36" range. Especially now that you can only remove models within the weapons maximum range meaning you often have to get closer than 24" to fire at full effectiveness.

Yeah, that is true - Although I haven't often lost venoms when they get caught within 24" now and again, generally because while they might be closer - I generally have a couple other things, even closer, commanding more attention. And the venom and starweaver's shooting are great, but they arent so broken that the opponent will focus on downing them asap - I mean, gunboats still do alright and they essentially have a 12" range as they want to be within rapid fire range to be able to do the same a venom can from 36"

And on their defense side - they only have one extra hullpoint. Although they can also jink without hampering their firepower ofc.

But you are right - I should probably start listing the venom having better range than the starweaver. I'll make sure to give them a try asap - still waiting for the models from a month ago : /
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Wed Mar 11 2015, 00:18

Is a Death Jester a good leader in a kw raider gunboat?

for 60 pts he adds quite a few small things:
- Ld10 helps against raider explosion
- fear
- +2 I for sweeping advances (well not game changing)
- Haywire grenade (+5pts, add a second weapon for AT with the kw blaster)
- Hit & run (works on the whole unit, could be useful to benefit again from FC or rage)
- a small added punch in assault (for example when kw have FC and fnp)
- a nice ranged weapon with the same range (24")
- pinning to prevent overwatch or a charge
- Death is not enough: seems fun as hell

Its a shooty leader, but can also contribute in late game assault.
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Wed Mar 11 2015, 00:40

@Mononcule wrote:
Is a Death Jester a good leader in a kw raider gunboat?

for 60 pts he adds quite a few small things:
- Ld10 helps against raider explosion
- fear
- +2 I for sweeping advances (well not game changing)
- Haywire grenade (+5pts, add a second weapon for AT with the kw blaster)
- Hit & run (works on the whole unit, could be useful to benefit again from FC or rage)
- a small added punch in assault (for example when kw have FC and fnp)
- a nice ranged weapon with the same range (24")
- pinning to prevent overwatch or a charge
- Death is not enough: seems fun as hell

Its a shooty leader, but can also contribute in late game assault.

Sounds like a fine plan to me. It definitely bumps the price up on the gunboat itself, but the idea itself is sound.

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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Wed Mar 11 2015, 13:58

Am i missing something here? The shrieker is only assault 1 AP5, right?

The bio-explosive and death is not enough all seem good fun, but...assault 1 & AP5.
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Wed Mar 11 2015, 14:18

@kidfist0 wrote:
Am i missing something here? The shrieker is only assault 1 AP5, right?

The bio-explosive and death is not enough all seem good fun, but...assault 1 & AP5.

You don't need to be using the Shrieker ammo in order to benefit from the Death Jesters "Death is not enough" rule. You can use the standard Shuriken Cannon fire mode instead.

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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Wed Mar 11 2015, 14:23

That makes way more sense! Thanks, i hadnt spotted it could be fired as a normal one. That does seem decent.

I'm still struggling to see it being worth buying all of them troupes and a voidweaver to 'unlock' the stuff that actually looks cool though. Ho hum.
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Wed Mar 11 2015, 14:53

I think that bio explosive weapon is also fleshbane.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Wed Mar 11 2015, 15:32

@Dirtydeeds wrote:
I think that bio explosive weapon is also fleshbane.

It's Poison (2+) but it's much the same thing.

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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Wed Mar 11 2015, 18:53

Not quite as fleshbae does work vs gargantuan.
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Siegfried VII
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Wed Mar 11 2015, 19:24

I must say that I dissagree with HERO's approach on the harlequin army. It is an assault army and not a shooting army. In my opinion it's just silly to take harlequins for shooty purposes.

If one wants shooting both Eldar and Dark Eldar have better options. I have already tried a Harlequin list with a few Eldar allies and I have very nice results so far. Of course it's still early and I'll need more battles and tweaking, but I feel very possitive.

In case anyone wanders here it is:

Quote :

Cegorach's Revenge

x12 Troupe: 321pts
Harlequin Caresses x12, Starmist Raiment on Troupe Master.

x6 Troupe: 163pts
Harlequin Caresses x6, Haywire Grenades on Troupe Master.

x1 Starweaver: 70pts

x6 Troupe: 163pts
Harlequin Caresses x6, Haywire Grenades on Troupe Master.

x1 Starweaver: 70pts

x3 Skyweavers: 165pts
Haywire Cannons x3.

x3 Skyweavers: 165pts
Haywire Cannons x3.

x1 Voidweaver: 75pts

x1 Shadowseer: 100pts
Psycker Level 2, Mask of Secrets.

x1 Shadowseer: 85pts
Psycker Level 2.

x1 Shadowseer: 85pts
Psycker Level 2.

x1 Death Jester: 60pts

x1 Death Jester: 60pts

x1 Death Jester: 60pts

x1 Solitaire: 150pts
Haywire Grenades.


Allied Detachment

x1 Farseer: 155pts
Psycker Level 3, Mantle of the Laughing God, Eldar Jetbike.

x3 Windrider Jetbike Squadron: 51pts


Army Cost 1998pts

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Wed Mar 11 2015, 23:24

Quote :
It is an assault army and not a shooting army. In my opinion it's just silly to take harlequins for shooty purposes.

Interesting... and to prove that it is a melee centered army you took an awful lot of shooty units.
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Thu Mar 12 2015, 00:03

I wouldn't mind adding a jester or seer to a grot unit. Both for hit and run. The seer for some protection and/or the jester to pull a unit towards the grots on occasion. Hit and run can help the grots catapult around a bit

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