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Hannibal.Lictor
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PostSubject: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 03:08

Super stoked with the new quins; my first box ever was the old box back in the days of yore. Anyhow, just wanted to start a discussion on what units might work with what, and I think there are some real winners.

Part of me wants a big grot bomb with both a seer and jester. Veil of tears can go a long way to keep that first round after the deep strike from being so nerve wracking. The combo of the fearless mask and the armor of misery seems like a no brainer. The jesters trolling ability is pure lulz.

But my real path of thinking is the codependency of both venom and weaver. With two shuiken cannons, most transports are in danger and the splinter cannons can mop up the contents. Sure, serpents, but they are kinda redic anyways.

I can also see a masque and a RSR detachment with 4 razorwings being pretty boss. You can toss in a solitare for late game objective clearing as well.

The way I see it, quins are what wych cults should have been and fit perfectly with DE. The same glass cannon fast hitting game play works for both armies.

Again just a opening shot, what have you guys come up with.
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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 04:00

Right now I'm toying with a Harley/dark eldar and ghost warriors formation army. (Ghost warriors formation gives 4+ cover and hatred (carress harleys with hatred are NASTY!) slap a shadow seer with veil of tears onto the wraiths and the Harleys into raiders. Have a WWP Archon with armor of misery and shadow seer with mask to deep strike wraiths. Struggling to fit it into a 2000 point list currently...
The combo of space elf ninja clowns of doom, vampire space elf pirates, and cyber zombie space elves is too awesome to pass up!!
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Hannibal.Lictor
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 05:19

out here in the west coast it's ttpical that tournaments (what my preferred play style) limit you to two detachments/formations. I also like the ghost warrior formation with harlies. Just have all the wraith guard nilla and have the lords with a scatter laser and bright lance.

What I am also attracted too is the tandem nature of the Halies and DE. That being said, ghost warrior is a great formation for Harlies.
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Blank05
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 05:39

Just curious, but looking at the Ghost Warrior formation, it says "friendly Eldar units" get Hatred. Do harlequins(from the Harlequin's Codex) count as "Eldar units"?
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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 05:58

@Blank05 wrote:
Just curious, but looking at the Ghost Warrior formation, it says "friendly Eldar units" get Hatred. Do harlequins(from the Harlequin's Codex) count as "Eldar units"?
Harlequins are in the eldar rulebook so I would assume so.... now that you mention it... I'm not entirely sure Embarassed
Edit: I would count it personally. The Harley dex is so small... it's to the eldar codex like the tempestus book (however you spell that) is to the imp guard book. Technically it is its own codex, but it's more of a supplement really..
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Its_Rumble
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 06:38

I will be making a 1850 De/Quin LD bomb list for sure with 2-3 shadowseers and 2-3 death jesters get all of the wargear to -2 to ld and just mess around with that for a while. With psuedo invis and psychic scream I bet we have a nice answer to FMCs, as long as we can hit them that is hahaha.

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Crisis_Vyper
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 09:33

I personally am fond of the book as it is very complementary to the Dark Eldar codices in many ways. Coven and Kabalites alike can benefit from the book, just as much as the Clowns could benefit from the Dark Eldar armies (sorry wyches, you still suck and you got replaced by clowns).

Depending on what you are going for, some formations are better with certain builds and having the Realspace Detachment to ally with the clowns really make things more interesting. So far, I find that the Haywire cannons could be an interesting weapon for my particular style of Dark Eldar play and to further pressure all mechanized armies much better.

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Caldria
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 10:43

Among the myriad of psychic and leadership shenanigans between the 3 Eldar codices we can get, which is incredibly exciting, I've been thinking of a few other smaller combos too.

Like a squad of haywire scourges with an attached Shadowseer. Their game is around 24" and the new Veil of Tears helps them be a bit more aggressive without being shot off the board the next turn. Since you can stay at maximum range with the scourges and its highly unlikely that anything would actually even be able to target you.

She does slow the scourges down a bit, however.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 10:59

If you drop them in cover, perhaps with a WWP Haem for added FNP goodness, they will probably be quite tough to shift without some dedicated firepower.

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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 14:01

I like Formations. I wanna test the Path of the Heroes (I think that's the name, one with 3 IC).
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Caldria
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 17:29

Also, between the shadowseer and death jester we have quite a few ways of getting pinning now. Especially with all the ways we have to hurt the enemy's leadership values between the harlies and DE.

The pinning helps our incubi quite a bit now too. A Shadowseer and/or deathjester with a unit of incubi is pretty decent now - veil of tears helping the incubi not get shot off the board, and pinning addressing their lack of grenades.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 18:30

Cant think of a good way to include multiple shadowseers/DJ without paying too much tax on worthless units...
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Its_Rumble
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 18:32

we can effectively bring 18 warriors a shadowseer and a haemon or something wwp them onto an objective give them stealth and shrouded and also veil of tears. Talk about being able to camp objectives now.

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Hannibal.Lictor
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 19:11

Mr. Klaivex, I am looking at three troupes, two starweavers for FA and two of the void weavers. I am not stoked on the skyweavers; little to spendie for what you get. It's about 800 points and none of its worthless in my opinion. Two haywire blasts and a significant amount of str 6 shots for popping metal bawks so the venoms can get some work done.

Those harlies can run and charge after turn two so great at late game pressure. And that tends to be where DE flags a bit. We come out strong with a hellacious alpha. Anyhow, just some thoughts.
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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 19:18

@Cerve wrote:
I like Formations. I wanna test the Path of the Heroes (I think that's the name, one with 3 IC).

A Solitair with Inflitrate, Stealth and Shrouded is an interesting thought...
The downside is that the Death Jester and the Shadowseer can't join any units. You'll need to play them very carefully.
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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 19:48

Shadow seer with incubi will be great, I think, since it solves a lot of their problems. Veil of tears makes being gunned down after destroying a unit in cc less likely and the pinning shot helps with their lack of grenades.
Pretty much every DE unit gets better with liberal application of shadow seers.
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Omega1907
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 20:48

I want to try two formations in one of my next games (preferable not against our tau player):
Cegorach's Jest and Heroes Path

Infiltrating the ICs should help them survive the first round (out of LOS) and in the second turn the enemy should have a lot of other target up front (Grotesquerie). I plan on deploying the SS with the mask in the midfield, DJ near by, solitaire out of sight to keep him alive for a charge in the 2nd or 3rd turn (after another unit declared a charge against his target to soak up overwatch), preferable into a high value unit with the enemy warlord (precision strikes, and if he is stupid enough to challenge, even better).

Cegorach's Jest I want to try because of their special rule, they get an incredible threat range and should be able to catch up with the grots even when they shoot in the first turn. The skyweavers I'd run as a mobile shuriken platform, barebone with maybe one glaive in 3 for the added CC ability. But primarily I'd run them shooty, plasma blasts aren't that bad I think. Voidweaver ... I honestly have no idea how to use them best, only that I'd always chose the prism cannon for its versatility.

I think that combination could put out quite a hurt, and should survive at least the first round of shooting.

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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 20:55

@Rokuro wrote:
@Cerve wrote:
I like Formations. I wanna test the Path of the Heroes (I think that's the name, one with 3 IC).

A Solitair with Inflitrate, Stealth and Shrouded is an interesting thought...
The downside is that the Death Jester and the Shadowseer can't join any units. You'll need to play them very carefully.

Yes, I know. I have already 1 Heroes Path, and 1 Company of Players (translating by Italian), so I wanna work on these 2 Formations Smile

With Seer Mask, Archon Armour, Coven Supplement, we get -5 Leadership to the enemy. -7 with other DE Relic witch make test all non-fearles non-atsknf (Tau, Necron, DAEMONS...not bad).
And we have a lot of things witch make test:
-Jester
-Seer Greneade Launcher (never forget it!)
-Telepathy (with Eldar)
-Phantasmonology or whatever

I think we can work on a LD bomb now, with these clowns
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Omega1907
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 20:58

@Cerve wrote:

And we have a lot of things witch make test:
-Jester
-Seer Greneade Launcher (never forget it!)
-Telepathy (with Eldar)
-Phantasmonology or whatever

Don't forget our own soulfright grenades Wink
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 21:01

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
Cant think of a good way to include multiple shadowseers/DJ without paying too much tax on worthless units...


Detatchment.

And the only worthless unit to me is the Voidraven. I don't like that...thing..

Troupes, otherwise, are great! With Crescendo, they have an 6"+3D6"rerollable charge. Primaris get also like 14-16" of nullzone, so they work nice togheter.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 21:01

@Omega1907 wrote:
@Cerve wrote:

And we have a lot of things witch make test:
-Jester
-Seer Greneade Launcher (never forget it!)
-Telepathy (with Eldar)
-Phantasmonology or whatever

Don't forget our own soulfright grenades Wink

yeah! Very Happy
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 21:05

Quote :
Mr. Klaivex, I am looking at three troupes, two starweavers for FA and two of the void weavers. I am not stoked on the skyweavers; little to spendie for what you get. It's about 800 points and none of its worthless in my opinion. Two haywire blasts and a significant amount of str 6 shots for popping metal bawks so the venoms can get some work done.

Thats 800 points tax and you not even included the 2 models I want to have multiples of.
So with 2 - 3 Shadowseers and DJs you are looking for over 1k points as an allied force for a "main" force of 750 points DE... defeats the purpose, don't you think?
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Caldria
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 21:08

Yeah the Masque detachment probably shouldn't be seen as a small allied force, I guess that's what the formations are for (albeit a bit limited). I'd say the Masque is for a roughly 50/50 split between your primary and secondary detachments. Half DE/ half Harlies etc. As people have said, they bring some fast assault units to DE as well as support for DE with regards to all the cover and veil of tears protection and leadership based synergies.
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 21:11

The negative LD stuff sounds fun and could be fun on the right occasion.  Some -4 LD and psychic scream could be mice for those nasty MCs.

I fallow ITC so one you can make your army from two sources instead of whatever you like. I prefer this as it gives a little more structure. Not sure if the DE CAD (for Ojs) or the Real space raiders detachment would be best?

What say you fellows?

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Omega1907
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PostSubject: Re: Quin/De synergy   Mon Feb 23 2015, 21:28

@colinsherlow wrote:
Not sure if the DE CAD (for Ojs) or the Real space raiders detachment would be best?

What say you fellows?

Depends if you want your WL from the DE or the 'quins. The clowns have some really fun traits too. Some of them also lend themselves to more psychological warfare style of game (redeployment, scout, infiltrate etc.).

That said, if you want to field an DE as warlord and roll on the BRB tables - CAD. With harlies taking such a huge chunk of the points value, you'd most likely don't need the extra FA slots anyway I'd guess and the Obj secured is nice to have.
A few ravagers, gunboats/blaster venoms, something durable like grots to give the clowns something lasting in CC. In FA I'd probably field 1 or 2 packs of scourges and a razorwing. But then you're scrapping at the 2k I guess.

Personally, I'd always choose realspace raider unless I really want to roll on the BRB tables. But that's only because I like hope for labyrinthine cunning every time Rolling Eyes
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